Death *Sorry it might be a bit moribd*

[VeggieBoy]

Death: noun- the act of dying; the end of life; the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an organism.

Fate: noun- the universal principle or ultimate agency by which the order of things is presumably prescribed; the decreed cause of events; time.

I don't know about other people, but I think death is a very important part of life. Death is ambiguous and I have heard "The ending of life is one thing, and the condition of having life over is another". I am kind of fascinated by death and to me "death is the ultimate price of living". Humanity throughout the ages have seen death as something loathsome and gruesome, so people try to avoid death at all costs if they can. I don't think we should fear death like most people do, but welcome it as a gift of eternal peace. I'm not a Christan or anything else, but I do believe that we do go somewhere after our time on earth has expired. I'm not saying that I want to die right now or anything. I'm just saying live life and when it comes to your time don't try to stop it with medicines and treatments.I believe in fate and that there is a big plan for everything. Even though it might seem like you have control your own life; every thing is part of THE BIG PLAN whatever it might be and whoever might control it. So whatever you're dying for be glad that you lived in the first place and embrace what is coming for you in the end.

 

[Dan]

I don't believe in fate much - I do think we have control over our lives up until the day when we die. I do have to say when we are about to die we should just accept it though....

 

[VeggieBoy]

I don't believe in fate much - I do think we have control over our lives up until the day when we die.

Fate is real. Everything that happens happens for a reason. It seems as we do have control over our lives when we do decide to do something, but it is all happening for a reason. Our lives are a set of events that are inevitable. You cannot deny it, my logic is undeniable .

 

[Dan]

And how exactly do you know that?

 

[GamingX]

This looks interesting. I go with VeggieBoy and strongly believe in Fate. If you've ever seen all the three movies in Terminator, you would understood a bit better. Everything that happens out there is by Fate whether good or bad. If we could do everything with our own hands, then death wouldn't come so easily to everyone. You look at the world around and what do you see? Even the rich die, so do the poor. Even the strong die, even the weak die. Even Kings die, even pauper's die. Death is inevitable. If you could tell a dying man if he would give all his money to live, he would gladly give it away. But no money, no power nothing can stop us from death. But Death is not the end.

 

[Dan]

Yeah I know nothing can stop death but that doesn't mean fate exists - it's not like it's my fate to write this post....

I'm not sure I can be bothered to argue anymore....

 

[Nightmare Demon]

Death: noun- the act of dying; the end of life; the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an organism.

Fate: noun- the universal principle or ultimate agency by which the order of things is presumably prescribed; the decreed cause of events; time.

I don't know about other people, but I think death is a very important part of life. Death is ambiguous and I have heard "The ending of life is one thing, and the condition of having life over is another". I am kind of fascinated by death and to me "death is the ultimate price of living". Humanity throughout the ages have seen death as something loathsome and gruesome, so people try to avoid death at all costs if they can. I don't think we should fear death like most people do, but welcome it as a gift of eternal peace. I'm not a Christan or anything else, but I do believe that we do go somewhere after our time on earth has expired. I'm not saying that I want to die right now or anything. I'm just saying live life and when it comes to your time don't try to stop it with medicines and treatments.I believe in fate and that there is a big plan for everything. Even though it might seem like you have control your own life; every thing is part of THE BIG PLAN whatever it might be and whoever might control it. So whatever you're dying for be glad that you lived in the first place and embrace what is coming for you in the end.

If I die now I would be happy(not but I want to) as for me I see it as I have done my part in this life and that is help bring 4 wonderful children in to this world

 

[VoxDei]

I have two mutually contradicting view on the subject of fate.

In a way, you could say I believe in fate. On an atomic level, our brain is a fuzzy bundle of electrons spinning around nuclei, in turn forming chemical compound which behave in predictable ways, in turn causing electrical current to make muscles contract, and so on. This world view means that as such, everything is inherently predictable with enough information, so essentially everything is fated. I know the last sentence starts to fall down when you go into chaos theory type things, but by then you can't take much at all for granted. In this world view, the person is merely a collection of chemical effects, and there can be no afterlife, since there was no life to begin with, only matter.

The other view is that somewhere, somehow, and in complete defiance of observable reality, there is something that persists, that can exist independently of the physical universe. I would call this a soul, although there's no reason anybody else should. You could call it a spirit, a ghost, a katra (if you're a trek fan,) or the value neutral "non-corporeal entity." The meaning is the same.

My upbringing and inclination as a Christian is to the last one. Without a soul, something that can exist beyond death, there is no need for life. Without a heaven and hell, what point is there in life? If there are no consequences after death, what (aside from practicality) would stop me from deciding to kill, say, the Prime Minister? or the Queen?

If I were an atheist I would say that religious belief was probably an evolved trait due the tendency of people who decided that there were no consequences post-mortem to die before they had a chance to breed.

I've just realised how far I've meandered from the topic, so I'll try and bring this back to the point.

As for death, I would say that in practical terms, death is inevitable. For it not to be, you would have to live for billions of years, until the universe ended, although even then, you'd still die. Living forever would actually suck pretty badly.

If the former of the two scenarios I started off with is true, there is no philosophical reason you couldn't maintain your current level of existence (whatever that may be) indefinitely, given sufficient resources. You couldn't achieve that with a human body, of course, but maybe you could build a duplicate of yourself made out of something that could?

If the latter of the two scenarios is the case, then why would you want to? Eternal existence would be easiest to obtain by dying. Although if you're a Christian, you can't cheat and kill yourself, because thats a one way ticket downwards, so your only option is to lead a selfless life and try and take a bullet for somebody else as soon as possible.

Does it reflect badly on me that I've actually sat down and tried to cheat my own belief system?

 

[noerrorsfound]

My upbringing and inclination as a Christian is to the last one. Without a soul, something that can exist beyond death, there is no need for life. Without a heaven and hell, what point is there in life? If there are no consequences after death, what (aside from practicality) would stop me from deciding to kill, say, the Prime Minister? or the Queen?

The only thing you've got other than people making physical attempts to stop you is your conscience. I guess that's what makes atheists different than theists--when atheists do the right thing, it's not because they believe it will save them from punishment after death.

 

[VeggieBoy]

Death is such a fundamental process in nature that, without it, life could not exist. From the moment of our birth, the cells in our body are endlessly dying and being replaced. The body that dies is not the body that was born. In order to grow, we experience many deaths. Over and over again we shed our appearance, our attitudes and our behavior as we change from one stage of our life to the next. The person that dies is only one of the people we became as we lived. What goes on after we die varies from different religions. Some believe that life-forms just end in death and what they are composed of is recycled into the air and made into a new organism. According to scientific evidence there is no supernatural happening after we die and that there is no soul...

...so do we have souls? What happens after we die...



I guess from the fate argument ...

You could ask:Are events physical as well as social or predictable? Is everything that happens in this world pre-determined? The first examples which come to my mind are biblical: the stories of Adam & Eve, Lot & his wife, Josef & his brothers…

So if we say that there is a higher power and that higher power has control over our life then it is logical to say we have no control over our lives. We also hear that our destiny has already been written which again leaves us with no control over our lives. I'd like to say we control the paths we go down in life? Do we? Is there a higher power? Is our life already planned out?

I could honestly say... I don't know. I guess you could say I'm confused about life.

 

[intenex]

Death: noun- the act of dying; the end of life; the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an organism.

Fate: noun- the universal principle or ultimate agency by which the order of things is presumably prescribed; the decreed cause of events; time.

I don't know about other people, but I think death is a very important part of life. Death is ambiguous and I have heard "The ending of life is one thing, and the condition of having life over is another". I am kind of fascinated by death and to me "death is the ultimate price of living". Humanity throughout the ages have seen death as something loathsome and gruesome, so people try to avoid death at all costs if they can. I don't think we should fear death like most people do, but welcome it as a gift of eternal peace. I'm not a Christan or anything else, but I do believe that we do go somewhere after our time on earth has expired. I'm not saying that I want to die right now or anything. I'm just saying live life and when it comes to your time don't try to stop it with medicines and treatments.I believe in fate and that there is a big plan for everything. Even though it might seem like you have control your own life; every thing is part of THE BIG PLAN whatever it might be and whoever might control it. So whatever you're dying for be glad that you lived in the first place and embrace what is coming for you in the end.

There's a lot to this that I could say, but I'm going to focus on the bold for now (I wish). Would you accept death as well as you do now if you did not believe in an afterlife?

You're arguing two sides simultaneously here (from my perspective). On one side, you say death is 'bad' (ultimate price of living), and on the other you say it is good because it is not the end and it is bound to happen. If something 'happens' to us after death, then it is not death - if there is life after life, then death has not occurred. It seems to me like your implication is that death would be bad were it avoidable or absolute, but as it is not and as it is not the end, we should simply accept it.

Hell, who wouldn't? If you knew you were going to absolute paradise after death, you should be hard pressed not to kill yourself (Christianity romanticizes death so well that were not suicide a ticket to Hell everyone would be dead).

I don't know if you see your perspective as a little more 'righteous' than a general fear of death, but my personal views on the subject seem to conflict with yours. What's the big plan? What's the meaning of life? Who's the big planner?

Is it possible (not actual) that life was simply the result of opportunity and chance? That there is no 'planning' figure behind our lives - that there is no meaning to life? That there is only a purpose - to survive [and reproduce, sub]. Not asserting that this is true, but is it possible? How would you view life then?

Just say that fate (intentional and meaningful destiny) does exist. Why try to convince people that they should not stop their lives with medicines and treatments (unless that is your purpose in this world), if they were to do so anyway due to their fate? In fact, why do anything? It'll all work out in the end.

Naturally, if survival were our chief (and only) motive, death must be seen as adverse. If death was acceptable, our race would never propagate. Similarly, I believe that our beliefs are necessary for the healthy continued functioning of our beings. Were we not to believe in the meaningfulness of life (fate and destiny) and religion (afterlife / moral purpose), life would be significantly more depressing. We are necessarily un-self-aware, and I find this a more noble cause to accept. Even if it were not true, it certainly is harder to accept. What is true? What is right? Everything right seems to aid survival in one manner or another. Is the ultimate planner survival? Even the most altruistic acts are inherently selfish in nature (sacrificing oneself for one's child). Through the survival of the whole, the individual. For your 'genes', self-preservation may not always be the best bet (eusocial animals such as bees and ants).

Alright, I'm done. Not really. I just can't remember what else I want to say. As always.

 

[VeggieBoy]

There's a lot to this that I could say, but I'm going to focus on the bold for now (I wish). Would you accept death as well as you do now if you did not believe in an afterlife?

You're arguing two sides simultaneously here (from my perspective). On one side, you say death is 'bad' (ultimate price of living), and on the other you say it is good because it is not the end and it is bound to happen. If something 'happens' to us after death, then it is not death - if there is life after life, then death has not occurred. It seems to me like your implication is that death would be bad were it avoidable or absolute, but as it is not and as it is not the end, we should simply accept it.

Hell, who wouldn't? If you knew you were going to absolute paradise after death, you should be hard pressed not to kill yourself (Christianity romanticizes death so well that were not suicide a ticket to Hell everyone would be dead).

I don't know if you see your perspective as a little more 'righteous' than a general fear of death, but my personal views on the subject seem to conflict with yours. What's the big plan? What's the meaning of life? Who's the big planner?

Is it possible (not actual) that life was simply the result of opportunity and chance? That there is no 'planning' figure behind our lives - that there is no meaning to life? That there is only a purpose - to survive [and reproduce, sub]. Not asserting that this is true, but is it possible? How would you view life then?

Just say that fate (intentional and meaningful destiny) does exist. Why try to convince people that they should not stop their lives with medicines and treatments (unless that is your purpose in this world), if they were to do so anyway due to their fate? In fact, why do anything? It'll all work out in the end.

Naturally, if survival were our chief (and only) motive, death must be seen as adverse. If death was acceptable, our race would never propagate. Similarly, I believe that our beliefs are necessary for the healthy continued functioning of our beings. Were we not to believe in the meaningfulness of life (fate and destiny) and religion (afterlife / moral purpose), life would be significantly more depressing. We are necessarily un-self-aware, and I find this a more noble cause to accept. Even if it were not true, it certainly is harder to accept. What is true? What is right? Everything right seems to aid survival in one manner or another. Is the ultimate planner survival? Even the most altruistic acts are inherently selfish in nature (sacrificing oneself for one's child). Through the survival of the whole, the individual. For your 'genes', self-preservation may not always be the best bet (eusocial animals such as bees and ants).

Alright, I'm done. Not really. I just can't remember what else I want to say. As always.

I never really meant the "death is is the ultimate price of living" as negative... I was just saying that because it is. I've always though about this stuff. There is so much stuff that is believed... I just don't know what to make of it...

From the moment of our birth, the cells in our body are endlessly dying and being replaced. The body that dies is not the body that was born. In order to grow, we experience many deaths. Over and over again we shed our appearance, our attitudes and our behavior as we change from one stage of our life to the next. The person that dies is only one of the people we became as we lived.

Which is what I stated earlier one way I view humans ..

I guess I contradicted myself a bit... It's just I ... Well I don't know really I was just talking... I'm going to think about this more *leaves to think*

 

[intenex]

I never really meant the "death is is the ultimate price of living" as negative... I was just saying that because it is. I've always though about this stuff. There is so much stuff that is believed... I just don't know what to make of it...




Which is what I stated earlier one way I view humans ..

I guess I contradicted myself a bit... It's just I ... Well I don't know really I was just talking... I'm going to think about this more *leaves to think*
[/font]

That is cool, man. I totally respect your ability to rethink your life. I wish I could do that - to quote Nietzsche, "it is always consoling to think of suicide: in that way one gets through many a bad night". So much pointlessness in this world...my 'rational/logical' self is in direct conflict with my emotional and more base driven self...we all need a hug, but it sets you behind so much...