Do you believe in God?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Criptex, Jan 15, 2009.

  1. Criptex

    Criptex New Member

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    Well this is my first thread in this section... so please feel free to comment if you have something to say!

    This debate is about wheter you believe in God or not... and what you think about Him... and if you don't believe... explain your opinion... feel free to write your thoughts... but please write respectfully.

    First of all... please debate, do not insult other people or beliefs and do not use offensive language and respect the rest of the rules...

    But anyways... please take your time to comment because I think It is a topic that we don't talk about in the computarized world. and It will be interesting to hear your opinions... I personally believe in Him... and if anyone have any questions...I will explain why.
    Enjoy!
     
  2. ichwar

    ichwar Community Advocate Community Support

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    Hello Criptex
    Yes, I do believe that God exists. We see evidence all around us for that. His handiwork is evident throughout creation. The more I study it, the more impossible it appears for it to all have evolved from random chance.
     
  3. truthguild

    truthguild New Member

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    no. i have never seen any evidence for any god ever. being the skeptical person that i am, i employ the null hypothesis to any positive claim i'm exposed to - if the evidence shows the null is wrong, then i adjust my view accordingly. on the issue of god, so far it hasn't.
     
  4. Kayos

    Kayos Community Advocate Community Support

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    I've moved the posts that have not been on topic of the main post to this thread. This was due to the similarity in the nature of the conversations.
     
  5. Criptex

    Criptex New Member

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    you know... truthguild... you have a very acceptable point of view... but as you can see... the evidence that science provide to explain the the biggest mysteries in the world, is always changing, and is always a hypothesis..., they have to make experiments that cost millions of dollars, and once in each century... a brilliant mind discovers a principle, or a law, that God clearly specifies in a little book... with only 66 mini books contained in a collection called bible... just a little example:
    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
    you know... if you read from verse 1 to 31... you'll notice that a book with more than 1,000 years of age... is clearly explaining the expansion of the universe.. the change of athmosphere... the natural distribution of water and land that happened millions of years ago.. it also explains a order in which each specie of animal appeared in the earth and it also makes a reference about extintion.. when the author of the genesis... said:
    God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.
    This means that God didn't passed to the other day until he saw that everything was perfect... and that includes the extintion of some animals that were a hazard for the human specie... because is common sense that we cannot live in a world with huge creatures trying to eat us.
    But here's what's amazing about this... we took almost 200,000 years (age of first evidence of modern humans in africa) to realize that there was a big bang in the universe that created the earth from the pieces of a bigger planet... and that the earth once was covered in water... like the bible says... that we have material that is similar to the chemical composition of the ground... that there were animals that lived millions of years ago...
    and there are many more evidence to write... but to be honest... when God decides that your eyes are gonna be open... you can't do nothing about it.. I'm a living evidence of that... I was a sceptic person... but now I can see God in everything I see, everywhere I go...and for me He's more real than us.

    "It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense, it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure"
    -Albert Einstein
     
  6. truthguild

    truthguild New Member

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    for starters, i notice you pick one of the 4 christian gods to believe in (ie. Yahweh), which begs the question - out of all the thousands of gods people have believed in, why would you pick that particular one?

    anyways, regarding genesis 1:1-31...
    (i'm going to condense it a bit as i go through)
    right in line 1, we have about a 9.2 billion year gap - that's a pretty long time of details to leave out - about 2/3 of the time since the big bang.
    then, he seperates light from dark to make day and night... interesting, since by the genesis account, he still hasn't made the sun which is the source of light from which we determine day and night. it's also rather apparent that the author wasn't familiar with the fact that the earth is a globe, where day and night are determined by where on the planet you are...
    day 2 - he creates a firmament. the sky being a crystal dome over the earth was a popular belief during the bronze age - but it's not true.
    day 3 - he seperates the waters for dry land. geological evidence doesn't support the entire land being under water all at once ever. also this day, he creates the land plants (grass, herbs, and trees) which is completely inconsistent with the order life developed on earth. water plants and animals preceeded land plants by quite a bit.
    day 4 - and now he creates the sun moon and stars - which we also know is wrong. most stars are significantly older than earth, the sun is slightly older, and the moon formed at about the same time.
    day 5 - now he makes water life (including whales) and birds. life was in the water long before it was on land. but birds and whales both evolved from land animals.
    day 6 - makes the land animals. this should be before the whales and birds (but after fish).

    no where in here does it even imply anything going extinct. also, extinctions aren't based on what would be harmful to humans, as many animals to go extinct weren't and many animals still around can and do kill people.
     
  7. Criptex

    Criptex New Member

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    Man, I like how you write... it seems like you are a very intelligent person... First of all... I don't believe in one of the gods... I believe in The God of Isaac, Abraham and Jacob,and I believe in Him, because the things he has done in my life, and because He can be love, and at the same time He's Jehovah of the armies, and he can be consuming fire... and He is 1 and 3 at the same time. lol. I know this may sound confusing, but He is God, Jesus, and Holy Spirit at the same time. and I not part of any religion... I believe in Him and that is it... but I also respect people that don't believe in Him, also people that believe in Satan, because you know what... God doesn't judge them, so why would I jugde them... and even tough they don't believe in them... he loves them like he loves everybody else... but regarding your commentary... the bible is written in a kind of code... and as the bible says... claim to me and I'll answer, and I'll show you great and unknow things that you don't know... so, If you try to read it literally... you'll find a lot of gaps... a lot of things that may not sound correct at this time... but the bible was finished almost 1700 years ago... so they didn't know a lot of things about modern science... but the light of genesis 1... is not the sun... is His spirit, that used to dwell in the waters... because His spirit is light. But anyways... I wish I had a brain like yours, to assimilate so much information like you... U remind me of a man called Saul... a very intelligent man... the difference is that his hobbie has to kill christians... but he had a brilliant mind, maybe one of the most intelligent men in the bible... and he believed in science... because he knew a lot of things... he obviously didn't believe in God, cuz when you believe in God... you have to choose... whether you wanna live by the evidence or by faith... but I think you know the story... one day when he was on his way to kill more christians... God appeared to him and made him blind with the light that came out of Him... and He said: paul why are you persecuting me? and paul believed, the thing is.. he had a great ministery... but he said in one of his letters to the churches he had fund... I left everything I knew because now I have something that doesn't compare to what I had before, now that is trash for me... so, I think He's great and believe in Him without questions, cuz I've seen his power.
     
  8. deaddevil

    deaddevil New Member

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    I believe in god too, the very fact that i am living makes me believe so.
    When I think of it, the world around me, the air, the trees, the birds all come from somewhere. There is an essence of life in the air that I smell. The ground(ofcourse there's a bed on it) that I sleep on, feels like the soft palm of someone who is allowing me to sleep peacefully.
    Don't you ever feel to thank someone for the days of your life when you smiled, laughed, got that first look of love?
    Do you feel that we just cease to exist after death?..... the very feel that we live for around 80 years , do somethings in life and then just wither away, makes me think are we here for that?. then whats the difference between a beetle and you. Why have you been given the top level status in this world, why aren't you a cat chasing a mouse.....all this just tends to the fact that there is someone that is responsible for our lives here. That person is god. i believe in god not just because parents say so, but because it just comes out from within. Besides there are a lot of evidences of extranatural powers existing, exorsisms , miracles etc.
     
  9. Criptex

    Criptex New Member

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    Good thought deaddevil, sometimes we only see the superficial things. and you know what... He is a practical God... He's not just the character in the kids books... He is real and even though we're far from being perfect... he takes care us anyways.
     
  10. Kayos

    Kayos Community Advocate Community Support

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    But with so many other "Gods" out there, how do you know it's the right one? Are the other "Gods" wrong to believe in? Why should we pick just one "God"?

    Why wouldn't I take the Bible literally either? I don't think it's code for anything else. I think it was meant to be taken literally. Just think of the demographic it had for it's time. It's not like they knew any better in the first place. They took the book at face value.

    What evidence would that be?
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2009
  11. deaddevil

    deaddevil New Member

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    miracles are something that science cannot explain, also if they try to they come up with theories...by evidences I mean to say there are a lot of documented facts about things that happen but cannot be explained.
    In catholic religion saints are canonised after miracles take place, just as an interpretation that god gives the consent to canonise.
     
  12. whitebus

    whitebus New Member

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    If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent Him.
    --Voltaire

    If we take knowledge (the forbidden fruit from the tree of life) and use it to explain everything around us we are still left with unanswered questions. One might take the sum of the unanswered questions and equate them with God. But then you are left with a very purposeless existence.

    I think we as humans need to have a feeling of a higher purpose, and want to believe in the superiority of our species. It is this conflict that gives us rational thought.

    Once you have tasted knowledge, you do not want it to end when you die, thus a natural belief in eternal life.
     
  13. DMG Online

    DMG Online New Member

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    I believe in God, there's no rhyme or reason as to why, other then I trust and believe the story of christ. I was baptized when I was younger but I didn't start getting serious about my path with God until 2007. Every since then my life has changed for the better, miracles have happened for me, and he showed me that his existence is real even though I never doubted it. To understand why he is called different names you would need to understand the identity of the seven churches. There is only one true church that preaches the absolute truth of God because the other churches have fallen to sin in some way shape or form, so their truth is distorted to accommodate the message i.e. Jehovah's Witness. They kick people out of the church who sins and anyone who talks or associated with said person is kicked out of the church as well. This isn't the message of God, because Jesus even talked to and associated with a Prostitute, and the church is suppose to be a place of salvation for all sinners alike.
     
  14. Criptex

    Criptex New Member

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    Well... First of all... the bible says:By their fruit you will recognize them. So... Why believe in Him?
    Any "god" that promotes violence to other cultures or beliefs and is based in hatred... is not a good example to follow, and I know... you can tell me many verses in the bible where God sends or supports His people to go to war... but remember that in those years... war was the only way to conquer territory, etc... they didn't have diplomacy... and before Jesus died... the spirit of God was only in the Jews... Jews that believed in Him... and the other people was condemned to death... so when someone fought against Israel... they fought against Jehovah. but that ended in the beggining of the new testament. so... the fruits of God are... Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. so, with a principles like this.. plus the miracles that I've seen in my life and those around me... I think that for me, God is the best option. and the only one.. As you can see... many gods and religions born from a human thought... the necesity to praise something bigger than them... but I didn't reached my God... He reached me... because I was crazy!! with C! I did many many bad things... believe me.. and I didn't feel any necesity to praise any god... but one day... I touched my life... and since then my life is not the same.
    But please don't get me wrong... I respect other people, cultures and religions... my best friend is a lebanese that believes in ala... because ala means god...so he says that is the same god, but when you go deeper.. it is not... and my other best friend is a salvadorean guy who believes in the virgen maria, and prays to her everytime he gets into his car, and you know what... those guys are exceptional people, so I think everybody is free to believe in what they want, I just tried to explain why I believe in Him.
     
  15. Kayos

    Kayos Community Advocate Community Support

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    That still doesn't prove anything. What evidence do you have any miracles happened?

    Why isn't it a good example? Your "God" would be considered a mass murderer if you believe the story of Noah's Ark. It not only promoted violence but it carried out the deed it self. Yourself even stated that your "God" promoted wars, and regardless of diplomacy, it promoted violence in its name.

    Your whole religion is here today due to violence in "Gods" name.


    So you've seen your "God"?
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2009
  16. Criptex

    Criptex New Member

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    haha... this forums are amazing!
    First of all... I don't have a religion... now christians have like 10000 different denominations... and I don't have time to play that name... I think Jesus feels sad when he sees that now we have to belong to a certain denomitation to be his sons. and like i said before... God is love but he's also consuming fire... so the people in noah's age... lived under a time called time of the law... and if you do something wrong... you had to pay for it... and the earth was corrupted, so sadly... he had to destroy them. and tell me something... if God didn't create us... why He also has the right to destroy us? has any other god destroy something or create something without the intervention of a believer of him? the answer is no, because they don't have the power to touch something that doesn't belong to them. and they don't create life, so they can't destroy it...
    but anyways... that happened once and He promise not to do it again... so that can't be a real argument about the character of God. and I don't think the real christians are here because of the violence... maybe you are confusing me with a catholic person... we are here because of very brave man, that even died for God, without saying nothing when they were tortured by people that believe that they were crazy... and we are here because of the mercy of God, at least that's why I am here.
    and!!!!
    for the last commentary... no... I haven't seen him, but you know what... the bible says... that those who believed without see... are the blessed ones... because we believe by faith... but when I say that he touched my life, I say that he made me feel the peace that exceeds every understanding... but that's something you have to feel by yourself, cuz otherwise, you won't believe :p.
    and if I've seen miracles, the answer is yes, I have... just a little example... once I was in church... and I was a little depressed because my dad told me something by the phone... my dad is not with me since I have like 10.
    but this one lady came to me and told me everything I was feeling, everything. and remind me parts of my childhood, and it was God speaking through her... and He told me that in those moments, He has right there beside me... and every single word was true... those where moments that nobody knew about except me... and I didn't remember them at that time... but she remind me everything like she was there... that's why I know it was Him... that lady doesn't know anything about me.
     
  17. Zangetsu

    Zangetsu New Member

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    you cant prove god, you can prove science

    dont tell me the bible is proof any one can write a book thats a 1000 pages
    besides the bible has been rewritten multiple times who says it still tells the true story hmm ?
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2009
  18. ichwar

    ichwar Community Advocate Community Support

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    Let me go back a few posts here:

    Actually, the Hebrew word that is used as day here is a literal 24 hour day. So, you really can't try and squeeze 9.2 billion years into 24 hours.

    As you said, there is no sun yet, so the only light that there was came from God. The only difference between night and day at that time was from the light that came from God, not the sun's light.

    What on earth does a firmament have to do with a crystal dome?
    To prefent confusion, let me give you the dictionary definition of a firmament: The region of the air; the sky or heavens.
    I just don't see how you can equate that with a crystal dome.

    What you claim to right is sheer speculation. How do you know the order of life developed on earth? You don't. Animals could never of survived with out plants. In the fossil record, we find from the very beginning, animals that lived entirely upon plants. Take for example the fossilized bee hive that was found recently. It supposedly dates back to the period before plants were ever created, but, how do bees live without plants? Answer me that one.

    And, the assumption that is used to date stars is the speed of light. When a star is assigned an age, scientist, first find the distance of the star from the earth, then multiply that by the current speed of light. But there is an assumption that they are making when they do that. They assume that the speed of light has remained constant, a group of scientists, I forget their names, but I'll look it up if you want, recently found some good evidence to show that it is possible that the speed of light has been slowing down over time and infact, following the pattern that they observed, would of gone into infinity, (reached an infinite speed) about 6000 years ago, which is the time we also believe the eath was created.

    Also, why couldn't God of set all the light in place, so that we would receive the light from the stars from the very first day, instead of having to wait 2 million light years to be able to see their light?

    Oh ya? Really? Who says? Where are the intermediate fossil links between birds and whales and land animals?

    Again, you're basing this all on speculations, NOT fact.

    So, I fail to see what point you are making here...
    Edit:
    No, you can't prove science. Science is a method of making observations, and attempting to draw reasonable conclusions from them. Science can NOT prove anything. It's all conclusions and speculations.

    We have many different sets of very old manuscripts,that all came from different parts of the world. Yet, they're all the same! With the poor means of communication that existed back then, it is TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE that all these different manuscripst would all turn out the same if someone tried to change them. They could only be identical if they were copied from a single source, and that source could only have been the original manuscripts, because that would of been the only one available to them all before they got scattered throughout the earth.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2009
  19. Kayos

    Kayos Community Advocate Community Support

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    It still doesn't change the fact that your "God" is just as violent as anyone elses. The world being different is irrelevant. Saying the world belongs to him is just a silly way of justifying what you believe.

    To me a mass genocide is probably the worst conflict resolution known. It's like having a child. That child does some bad things like maybe kill a cat or something. A father sees the behavior of that child and thinks the kid is broken so he just murders him.


    Also, not to be rude but your words are hard to follow. Could you please break your posts up into paragraphs when you move on to a new thought. It's hard to read a wall of text with no break when a new thought occurs.
     
  20. Zangetsu

    Zangetsu New Member

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    Last edited: Jan 16, 2009

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