Do you believe in God?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Criptex, Jan 15, 2009.

  1. chingola

    chingola New Member

    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think that by looking at what we are taught by God we can determine that when going by what the different religions teach us and when they were written there is a big agreement in most that there is at least a God if not more, so God exists I believe.
    However I actually believe there is only one God, and we can choose to accept Him or not, the evidence is out there when we open our eyes, I have heard many scientists who went out to prove there was no God with no prejudgment and now they believe in God.
    Unfortunately many say there is no God, but when there is a tragedy they blame Him... Makes you wonder...
     
  2. boris333

    boris333 New Member

    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The way I see it, I can not know for certain if there is or is not a God. There are things that certainly could be his work, or could simply be a low probablity event occurring.

    I do see the utility in God, though, in the fact that in believing in him, many people find themselves able bear with the harshest of times. Additionally, God is a rallying cry for various movements across the globe. Sadly as it is, God also gives many the reason they unfortunately seem to need just to be decent people.

    At it's fundamental basics, God is representative of creativity, knowledge, and hope. These three things are not divine notions. They are basic expressions of humans, so it seems logical that whether there is a God or not, we would style one that fits our greatest features. In that regard, everyone has a little God in him, should he or she choose to express it. Cogito ergo sum Deus.
     
  3. truthguild

    truthguild New Member

    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    0
    @Soki - it's like shooting fish in a barrel

    also known as Pascal's Wager - and here's what's wrong with it...
    1 - it's a false dichotomy. it assumes either the catholic god or no god. it ignores the plethora of other gods that could potentially exist - many of whom are quite jealous
    2 - do you really think a god would be impressed with this "just-in-case" sort of psuedo-belief?
    3 - it plays on the idea that belief is a choice - it isn't. either a person is convinced by the evidence or they are not.

    let's reverse this question - if god exists, where did he come from?
    Edit:
    this is a logical fallacy - argument ad populum. the amount of people believing something does not in any way have any bearing on whether it is true or not.
    in that case, make your case and show the evidence
    another logical fallacy - appeal to anonymous authority.
    not particularly relevant since i don't
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2009
  4. Jonthefisherman

    Jonthefisherman New Member

    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    My mother, and grandmother have always been strong believers in god and have tried to raise me to that belief. However, god has never helped me nor have I seen evidence of him. The world was created by science and is maintained by science. However, I'm not an atheist nor am I a strong believer.
     
  5. AndrewBigbucks

    AndrewBigbucks New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Well, There could be, there could not be, it depends on what people think!
     
  6. rmaslic

    rmaslic New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi everyone! I would just like to contribute to this debate. First of all I do not believe in the existence God, Gods, deities, devils, demons ect. Also I would like pose this question (regarding monotheism). Why would "God" want people worshiping him and going to the church, mosque, synagogue ect.

    I realize the repliers to this question will likely talk about how God created everything and such like that. I will pose a counter-point to the eventuality. Your mother and father created (biological mother and father) you. Should you not worship them as the creators of you.

    Also I recommend everyone to check this site out

    http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm

    Please when you reply offer some evidence to support what you think.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2009
  7. 007dev

    007dev New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    hello every body,,,well i do believe in god,,,

    See we n whole world is in learning stage,thats means.....some years back,we never believed that there can be a computer who can do our job,,but we made it possible,,,Again some years back we never believed touch screen computing,but now its possible,,

    Let's take a small example,,,
    When i was in my childhood days learning Mathematics,My teacher taught me addtion,substaction n etc...means 2+2=4,,4-2=2,,
    But teacher told me that a big no. cannot be substarted from small no.,,that is impossible
    that means... 2-6 = impossible,,
    When i grew up,n studied higher classes,,then my teacher told me that if 2-6 = -4,at that time negative numbers were introduced,,,

    So wats moral story,,we havnt seen god,so we dont believe it...,but iam confident that one day we will prove that there is GOD..........

    One Day...........Its possible............So believe in god
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2009
  8. geirgrusom

    geirgrusom New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Think about this: It is impossible to rationalize belief in god without flawed logic or ungrounded assumptions. This makes me reach the conclusion that god may or may not exists, but who knows? and if you cannot reach a solid foundation to your belief, why believe in the first place? because of culture? because of tradition? because someone else tells you to?

    Remember that the people responsible for Christianity, Islam or Hinduism had as much evidence to go on as you do, so how can you come to the same conclusion as they did when you have such an incredibly much more vast knowledge on how the world works?
    Remember that these people believed in a flat earth, the earth-core was filled with dragons, and diseases was caused by evil spirits.

    A lot of people are also "convinced" by other peoples religious experiences, which is also is false evidence, since there are a lot of more reasonable explenations for religious experiences that does not require unfounded assumptions or flawed logic.
     
  9. Zdroyd

    Zdroyd New Member

    Messages:
    548
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I am open to the concept of religion, but I am also a smart man.

    (That should sum it up.)
     
  10. wladic

    wladic New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Alright I just wanted to put my word out on some of this debating. First off, I'm a believer in Christ. Now I've read the first couple pages of this thread and I've read a lot of stories about witnessing miracles and such. Then the opposing talking about Proof. Proof of these miracles and anything to back up these witnessed miracles. Another guy also wrote that any proof given you will not accept. A reply to that msg was "So you have given me zero proof".
    In this thread there were 3 miracles described (at least).
    1. Cousin raised from the dead. <--- You wanted medical records
    2. Lame people were healed instantly. <--- Someone wrote exactly how lame were they?
    3. Drug addicts and alcoholics had their addictions taken away. <--- Someone wrote how did God just take them away?

    Lets go back about the guys cousin being raised from the dead at a funeral. A reply to that story was "Any proof? medical records and such?". Well what if you were presented these medical records? What would you say then? "Those medical records were faked!", Right?
    If the lame person's leg was clearly shorter than their other leg and had to wear a shoe with a thicker sole to balance out the difference. And they were healed and could run and walk in normal shoes without any problems? What would you say? You would probably ask for a video or photos... Then when presented with some you would say they were photo shopped... CGI edited, right? Because no way could that be possible...
    If a guy has been addicted to heroin for 2 years and couldn't last a whole day without getting strung out and then was healed. And has been clean for months what would you say? Probably a ridiculous excuse to how it isn't possible.
    My point is that you ask for proof but if you are given proof you will reject it. Your eyes are closed and will be until you accept Christ. Only he can open your eyes and show you the way. He will show you amazing things you will never forget.
    God gave us a thirst for knowledge. A need to know the truth and the unexplainable. You are a perfect example since you are reading parts of this thread.
    Jesus is tugging at your heart and you can feel it. Thats why you are back on this thread reading these messages. Something deep inside you is wanting to learn more about Christ and to find out the truth. You can deny it (and I'm almost positive you will) but in the back of your head you still know its true. That heavy sinking feeling inside you right now is Jesus and he wants you to step out, to take his hand, to walk with him. All you need to do is say "Yes".

    "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you."
    - Matthew 7:7
     
  11. alcramer

    alcramer New Member

    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Kayos -- maybe you should explore Hinduism? We think there's lots of Gods (last count: > 2 billion). We're free to worship whichever we want; this business of who's greater/bigger/better is up to them to sort out, not us...
    Regards,
    Al
     
  12. geirgrusom

    geirgrusom New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The problem with only examples, are that they prove nothing. Even if someone did get reanimated, it is not proof of god at all, neither are lame people standing up or cured drug addicts.

    You bring up two assumtions:
    1. God did it
    2. Not just any god, your god.
    How do you know it was not Fr√łya or some other of the thousands of gods? it's just as likely.

    These are called baseless assumptions.
    You don't need proof because you believe? Well, I would not just need proof that these things happened, I would also need proof that what you believe is the real cause of it too.

    What I have learned throughout my life is that people is full of it, and a lot of people will not hessitate to lie to assert their beliefs.

    Cousin raised from the dead:
    Firrst of all, this is pretty amazing if true, but it's not unique. People have been declared dead and woken up at the morgue before.
    But why do you think God was behind it?
    And I would like a reference to this, since it's amazing. God would have had to repair all cells from cell decay on cure rigor mortis which would be a *****. Besides, why would god even do this?

    Lame people was healed instantly:
    These people can sometimes be healed by themselves, but when you add the word 'instantly' I call BS. People are slaves of their minds, whatever they believe will always be their reality.

    Drug addicts: This has a pretty simple and rational explenation. When you have an addiction, it does not really matter what it is, drugs, alcohol, food, parachute pants, whatever. You need to focus on your addiction, one mistake and you're back to square one.
    Lots of people get through an addiction without religion, that some use religion to get through it only proves that some people belive in god, that's it.

    To me, religion is superstition, and the "evidence" I hear is always anecdotes backed up by nothing but assumptions.
     
  13. truthguild

    truthguild New Member

    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    0
    let's put your bolded claim to the test - ask your god to provide the argument that will convince me.
     
  14. peterhsieh

    peterhsieh New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    This post is very inspiring xD..

    Just the first few posts are amazing xD...

    Yea I do believe in God and that Jesus is our Saviour...Why?

    Well look at yourself.. look at everything around you.. (some of this I learnt from my science teacher - christian school) could everything you see and everything you cant see.. like air or gravity.. or cosmic rays.. just be an accident? The LORD is not understandable, he's the greatest of all.. he created us. Just referring to the first few posts.. truthguild has interesting points but.. as you know.. we all know.. that what we say here or anywhere is our human interpretation. We can not say this is right.. because we weren't there when it was created. this whole world is a mystery.... No one will ever know.. its is faith that will answer you questions.. not answer them fully but something to believe in... You will have to believe in something eventually.

    I love the example of the stars and the galaxy.. if they are millions light-years away.. and the bible says that the earth has only been here for around 3000-4000 years(sowwie i cant remember xD) then how is it possible that we see the light.. well this troubles so many... it tests our faith... But there is also a simpler explanation.. we do not know how long the distances for alphacentori is from earth in God's eyes.. for all we know it could be a few cm... also time is NOT constant.. if you put a clock on Mt everest then put one at the ocean.. the one on the mountain would be slower ( i think or vice versa).

    From my beliefs we will never know the truth till the LORD comes back to collect us. We just have to believe. I don't know about you but if you have been with a Christian family.. they always seem more cheerful than others.. ^-^.. Go see find a bible based church and start your journey towards God ^-^..

    God Bless.. - Happy Easter...
    Peter
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2009
  15. raidproxy

    raidproxy New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    There is evil in the world. If there is a god:

    Is that god willing to prevent evil, but not able?
    Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is that god able but not willing?
    Then he is evil himself.
    Is he able and willing?
    Then why is there evil anyway?
    Is he neither able, nor willing?
    Then why call him God?

    BAM!




    Credits go to Epicurus from ancient Greece.
     
  16. truthguild

    truthguild New Member

    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    0
    very good question - why do you believe it?

    *bangs head on desk*
    2 major problems:
    1 - this is an appeal to ignorance fallacy (please read my thread about logical fallacies)
    2 - science doesn't claim that any of those are the result of accident or chance
    sort of defeats the purpose of the bible then, doesn't it.
    evidence to back up that claim?
    human interpretation is all we have to work with. the question is should we accept human interpretation of the empirical evidence, or human interpretation of myths people used to explain things they cannot understand.
    by using the evidence, one does not need to witness an invent to learn how it happened
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONvDjHM3eNg
    yet another appeal to ignorance fallacy
    faith doesn't answer questions - it just assumes it's right and refuses to allow for questioning. evidence answers questions.
    and the best way to ensure those beliefs are as close to correct is to use evidence and reason to see if they are. there's no virtue in believing in things without evidence for them.

    another good question.
    which begs the question, why would an all-knowing god need to test anything. testing things is for learning about them.
    nor is it relevant. light moves at a constant speed through a vacuum.
    gravitational warping of space-time is accounted for in the distance calculations.

    if you're admitting not knowing the truth, what basis do you have for your beliefs?
    or look to what the evidence says.
    statistical data to support that claim? from my experience, it is certainly not true. divorce statistics would also indicate it isn't true since chritians experience a higher rate of divorce than atheists do.
    after i see good evidence of this god and good evidence that it is the god of the bible.
    in all honesty, this post seriously fails not only to show evidence for the existence of a god, but also to close the huge gap between showing a god exists and demonstrating that it the judeo-christian god; you basically just tried to insert that particular god into what i've come to call a "hijacked deism" argument.
     
  17. polpoly

    polpoly New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Epicurus appears to have made a very good argument here... except the problem is his first line... "There is evil in the world". Who's to say what is evil and what isn't. The word evil is man's interpretation of actions that are deemed morally incorrect, cruel etc. The debate on what's evil is massive and probably needs another thread. In general, what is good and what is evil is decided by what the majority of humans deem good and evil. Some argue that there is no good and evil, some say gods define good and evil (in Bibles etc) and some say evil is relative to your social upbringing.

    Regardless, the notions of good and evil are purely man made. When a praying mantis eats the head of her mate (which lets be honest, would be evil if a human did it), it has no notion of good and evil. There are a few other examples in nature.

    So where this leaves us is... without humans there would be no good or evil, and it has nothing to do with there being a god or not. This is why those who argue there is no god "because he doesn't stop wars" have no ground to argue that. It's only humans that cause wars. We have the power to stop them and other "evils" because well we caused them. god doesn't need to intervene. I'm an atheist though, just wish I knew what came before the Big Bang, it's so frustrating not knowing!
     
  18. truthguild

    truthguild New Member

    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    0
    focusing in on the part i bolded, i understand that frustration. the problem is, we don't even have a definition of before the big bang (time originates at the big bang, thus defining 'before' becomes exceedingly difficult). the singularity of the big bang is a condition under which pretty much everything we know in physics doesn't really apply (or for any part prior to 10^-43 secs).
    that being said, this is a significant difference between atheists and theists - we don't know about it and admit it. theists don't know, insert their god of choice, think they explained something and pretend they do know.
     
  19. raidproxy

    raidproxy New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think 'evil' in this context means evil as defined by Christians, eg. violence (crusades lol), homosexuality etc.
     
  20. library

    library New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    God is a tricky subject. Whilst I do not feel there is sufficient evidence to suggest that such a thing (or being, if you prefer) does exist, I do know of the appeal Believing could have on some people. And I don't mean the afterlife, forgiveness of sins etc. but there are just some things that suggest a presence of God and in Philosophical debates on such matters, I know how a seemingly 'un-Godly' act could occur and twist it into a Miracle. (An example of this is the question; a Serial Killer falls off a cliff yet survives. How could someone so rife in Sin be excused from a certain death? To which I replied; Well perhaps after this near fatal experiece, the Serial Killer will accept and embrace God and stop Sinning and ask for forgiveness and then do whatever God feels is necessary to repay his Sins.) So I understand God and can see how God can fit into our everday lives, but I do not yet accept God.

    Another debate about God, is the question of whether the world we see was made by God, or whether it was all a random occurance. Something in support of God, is by looking at something Artificial, for example, a Pocket Watch. If you take the back plating off of a Pocket Watch, you will see a number of cogs all working together for a single purpose. If you were to pick something natural, such as a rock, you would say that this is just a dead object, it has no meaning or purpose, but then, if you were to look under the rock, you will see it is home to some insects, so it does have a purpose. There is nothing natural in the world that doesn't have a purpose, it all works together to create a sustainable eco-system (something, I regret to say, we are killing). In other words, it all works together, like the cogs, for a single purpose. That will suggest that it is made by something, or someone, like the pocket watch. The pocket watch didn't just come into existence, it was crafted to work in a certain way.
     

Share This Page