Debate: Islam vs The World

Jakob

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{Please respect ANY religion discussed here. Without religion you'd be supriesed what isn't here.}

Islam has had such a large impact on this world, either you know it or not. It is the second largest religion in the world, right after Christianity, but is growing fast. Though it's a younger religion than most of the big religions.
Though Muslims may have different beliefs about Allah and ways to respect Allah.

Islam begun about five hundred years after the Roman destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem which dramatically altered the history of Judaism. Muhammad was born about 570 CE {BC} in the town of Mecca, which was basically a trade outpost. When 25 he married a business woman named Khadija, who was 15 years older roughly.

[The defining point in Islam goes back to the time of Abraham, Isaac and Ishmael. Abraham was given a promise by God that his descendants will be as numerous as the stars in the sky but he did not have any children at this time and he and Sarah were quite old at the time. Sarah did not have faith that God would give her a son and got Abraham to have a child with her handmaiden Hagar and she had a son Ishmael (Arabs). Sarah had a son Isaac (Jews) 16 years later.

Sarah was angered by Ishmael and persuaded Abraham to send Hagar and Ishmael in to exile. God told Abraham that he would take care of Ishmael and that his descendants would also be too numerous to count.

-Richard]


Muhammad developed the habit of praying in the hills and caves around Mecca. One day about 610 CE, he claimed about an experience, he underwent audio and visually experiences, and his wife Khadija encouraged him to not dismiss them. Soon he became to see them as divine revelations. He was to be a messenger of God. He was to be a prophet charged with a mission to deliver a message that would set straight the misinterpretations of earlier revelations given through the prophets that God has given to the Jews and Christians.

For the next twenty three years Muhammad preached about that God has spoken directly to him. The heart of the message was "surrender". Surrender is the root meaning of the word Arabic word Islam. By surrender he meant to the one true God.

His early preaching called for Social Justice and equality and comprehend oppression of the poor by the wealthy and powerful. Muhammad belonged to a tribe called the Quraysh, which exercised considerable control over the lives of the Meccans generally. But Muhammad and his family were among the poorer and less influential people of the tribe.

There are many similarities between the holy texts, the Koran and the Bible, it is claimed the Muhammad 'borrowed' from the Bible and Torah. But that isn't the case, the way the Koran tells stories mostly short as the attention span of people was not long. There are accounts of some people in the Koran, such as Hud, Salih, Shuayb who are in some ways unique to the Koran and the bible/Torah.

Jews, Christians and Muslims all claim the same holy land, Jerusalem. Palestine lies in southwest Asia at the eastern end of the Mediterranean Sea. It is the Holy Land of the Jews, since it was there were Moses led the Israelites after he led them out of slavery in Egypt, and they established their homeland there. Christians, their Christ was born in Jerusalem, or as the Jews call it, the City of David. {AKA the City of the King}. Palestine had Jerusalem as their capital after the Jews were forced to leave by Babylon.

So with this information, I appointed that they surrendered to their God, but what do they interpret their God as? Allah, as they call their God, whom is also the same God of the Christians and the Jews, but they were led to the right path through the last prophet in their beliefs. So is it possible that some sees Allah in different ways than others?

Equality of what? It really isn't clear in the structure of Muhammad of what is equality, so once again it could have been seen in different ways.

In my opinion Muslims see the Koran in different ways, as Christians see the Bible in different ways. {Such as the Jehovah Witnesses believe if you are not JW you are going to burn in hell and only 144,000 JWs get into heaven.}

But than in return people around the world have been getting extreme against Muslims, is that a way to act? It's like Malcolm X all over again. Fight violence, terrorism, and extremism with violence, terrorism, and extremism.
I even been to a sight of a house, where it was trashed, in flames, and spray painted all over it, 'Go back to your country', 'Muslims are not welcomed here', 'Our God is the true God' and some of them were so gruesome, I do not wish to even say, but these were bad enough. Look at the crimes committed:
  • Vandalism
  • Blackmail
  • Discrimination
  • Violation of Freedom of religion
So is it even possible since we are fighting their violence, terrorism, and extremism with the same thing causes more people to join doing the same thing? Didn't Dr. King do different, just use non violence, protests, sit ins, speeches, and marches to get what he wanted? Didn't he have the largest impact?
If history repeats itself, than why don't we let smaller thing involving one country actually repeat and involve the world.

Islam extremists have been going too far, granted, but are we also going too far ourselves as non religious people, Christians, Jews, and Atheists?
 
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Spartan Erik

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Well, the problem is that it is the Islamic extremists that want to send the world back to the 6th century by means of using 21st century weaponry.. it is unfortunate that the majority of the world has directly targeted those with Islamic views. Unfortunately, peace is not a solution among the extremists; they will do anything to destroy and convert Western civlization.. a key problem is Israel, and our support for Israel. I see how you point out the similarities with MLK, but we're dealing with a worse situation on a much larger scale
 

jensen

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Religions generally encourage good morals. Some religion known to others only by the way the members carry themselves.

But to justify one's action by claiming some authority from one's religion is indeed pushing the limits. Like how the Roman Chatolics once ruled that anything not approved by the Church is not to be allowed. So the scientist that said the world revolves around the sun gets burned at the stake. But then that's not what christianity is all about. So people think that christianity is restrictive.

SO now back to Islam. Just because a small group gets extreme we cannot say that all Islam is violent. But then notice that it is the majority that is very vocal. Not the minority Islam. Just look at how one cartoon about their foundher gets almost half the world into violent protest. I won't call that a minority. There have been cartoons against Jesus Christ but do you get that kind of a protest?

It's very sad to read of how the people behind the failed plot to bomb the planes are those who had benefited from the country who took them in. If you are from Pakistan and have alligence to Pakistan then ok. But these were born and bred in Britain and now want to wage a war against Britian? So much for appreciation. They should not have been let in, in the first place.

Yes, we cannot be violent against all Islams just because of a few. But then think about how "few" there are? There may be different types of Islam like there are different types of christian. But how many violent ones are there?
 

__z|x__

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I think that Islam is false. In my opinion, Islam is just a compliation of other religions.
For example:
1. The Kaaba was originally worshipped by the Hindu's.
2. While Muslims pray, they look from side to side a number of times and bow their heads down a number of times. This exact same practice is done by Jews.
3. The creation of the world is same as that as it is in the bible.

Also, in one part (begining part) of the Quran, it is written that people muslims should forgive others, make peace, not kill, etc. But at the ending of the Quran, it is written that all those who don't follow Islam should be killed, no forgiveness, Jihad, etc. So is there any meaning in this?

They talk about equality. In which sense is there equality in Islam? In Saudi, women are not even allowed to roam in the streets. They call that equality?
 

jvp856

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Most of those muslims are fine (=milions), but some are obsessed by their religion, they give us a bad image of all the muslims, what is definitely wrong. Everybody knows what's happening in the UK? Some of the young muslims that have always lived in the UK (not only in the UK) are extremists, and they become terrorists (remember the bombing of the metrostations and busses + the bombs for the airplains?).
To them I say go back to your country if you don't like us, you'll like everybody back in your country!
Not to the others.

(Sorry for my poor English)
 

mhashmi

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__z|x__ said:
I think that Islam is false. In my opinion, Islam is just a compliation of other religions.
For example:
1. The Kaaba was originally worshipped by the Hindu's.
2. While Muslims pray, they look from side to side a number of times and bow their heads down a number of times. This exact same practice is done by Jews.
3. The creation of the world is same as that as it is in the bible.

Also, in one part (begining part) of the Quran, it is written that people muslims should forgive others, make peace, not kill, etc. But at the ending of the Quran, it is written that all those who don't follow Islam should be killed, no forgiveness, Jihad, etc. So is there any meaning in this?

They talk about equality. In which sense is there equality in Islam? In Saudi, women are not even allowed to roam in the streets. They call that equality?

Islam was/is/will be the ONLY true religion in the world. Islam is not the compilation of anything, Islam is itself a
Religion. All other religion other than Islam are false.

1. Hindu's worship Idols which are like Humans and we Muslims worship God, and Kaaba is the home of God, it is not an idol.

2. Muslims pray only for God and God only, the prayer is called "Salat". It is the best prayer for everyone.

3. Bible, as we see it today is written by Human. There is no book today written by God but Qur'an and Qur'an only.

4. Muslims should create peace and live happily, that's what Islam is, a peaceful religion. The part of Qur'an you are talking about (The end) doesn't say that kill people, it says that spread Islam (Jihad) and if anybody not accept it then it's ok, Muslims will not do anything to him because Islam is the religion of faith. No one will accept Islam in compulsion but by heart. But if people are stopping you from spreading Islam and they are creating difficulties for you (as Kuffar used to do) then you can fight with them and kill them. Islam doesn't say kill those who don't accept Islam, it says that kill those who stops you from doing it.

5. What do you know about Saudi Arabia, nothing. There are some rules. There are no restrictions in Islam for women to roam but in complete clothes, in complete undisclosure. There is complete equality in Islam. All are equal in the eyes of God. All Muslims are brother to each other. Islam teaches us the way to live in peace.

Have you read Qur'an? If you think Qur'an is written by some human then there is a challenge for you in Qur'an. Qur'an says that "if you think that Qur'an is written by human then make your own verse like the one in Qur'an and you will never able to do it."

At Judgment Day, non-Muslims will request to God that "Oh God! We were wrong in our lives and we were fools, please give us one more chance and give us one more life! But God will say that No! did you not see the indications in the world that there is someone who is carrying the system of the world. Day after night and night after day, everyday it happens but you never believed that, now just go to hell and you will never be taken out of it (Forever)

And the Muslims who lived there life according to Islam and according to Qur'an and Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) will be invited by the angels in the Heaven. Angels will say "Welcome! Welcome! to the Heaven and be happy because this is the moment which God promised you in Qur'an and Welcome! you are in Heavens and you will be here forever, God is happy with you and you will be never out of the Heaven, there are no restrictions on you, do what you want!

People think this is all joke but I cannot do anything, after this post I will not answer any post regarding Islam. Say what you want to say about Islam, Allah, Qur'an and Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him). Islam is the biggest reality. Qur'an is 1400 years old and not even a single line is missing out of it and it will be live till Judgment Day (qayamat).

There is still a chance for everyone out there to stop himself to go to Hell. For non muslims, they should accept Islam if they want their welfare both in the world and at the Judgment Day. And for Muslims, they should improve their acts, keep away from sins and accept virtues and create peace and live their life according to Qur'an and guidelines given by Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him).
 
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Node1

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Religion is a relic of the past, it has no significant meaning today.
Religion has evolved, it is no longer about what it has been for centuries, do we need 'Religious' people to teach us right, from wrong? No.
All religion should be destroyed. We do not need a relationship with God because God does not exist.
 

Spartan Erik

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Node1 said:
Religion is a relic of the past, it has no significant meaning today.
Religion has evolved, it is no longer about what it has been for centuries, do we need 'Religious' people to teach us right, from wrong? No.
All religion should be destroyed. We do not need a relationship with God because God does not exist.

Lol as offensive as most people would find this statement, I couldn't agree more.. throughout history it has always been religion that has been in the way of science (look at the Dark Ages!)

But back on topic, there are MANY Muslims who practice Islam and are fine people! I have several Muslim friends who practice Islam; it's just too bad that there are the extremists that give a bad image to the entire group
 

jvp856

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Node1 said:
Religion is a relic of the past, it has no significant meaning today.
Religion has evolved, it is no longer about what it has been for centuries, do we need 'Religious' people to teach us right, from wrong? No.
All religion should be destroyed. We do not need a relationship with God because God does not exist.

Well, that's very...er...hard, but the fact that you don't need a religion doesn't mean other people need a religion (pe: handicapped people, your grandparents)(those are the biggest part of the people who go to the church in Belgium).
btw: a religion, I think I could live whitout it. (like I go to church every week)

Back to the Islam; the Islam isn't wrong at all, imagine, you live in the Middle Ages and you meet someone from pe Amerika, they arrive in your country (what the hell is a country? A village, a city, yes, but a country?) with their big airplanes, stuffed with hummers.
(ok, not realistic, I know) This is what has happened, they have now a lot of the modern stuff that they didn't had before, they have knowledge they didn't had, but their religion and their way of thinking didn't change, it didn't had the time to do that, they have to learn that the values from their religion are not the right values to live together in our modern world, what is something what will take time.
I'm not very suprised about extremism, in a fast changing world people go back to their religion.

(again, sorry for my poor English)
 
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__z|x__

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If Islam is peacful, and if Saudi Arabia is considered such a Holy place, then why does Saudi and other middle-east countries give huge somes of money to terrorist groups such as Al - Qaeda and others and also to countries like Afganistan etc.?

In reality, there is absolutely no point in this discussion because its not going to change anyones mind. People will still believe what the believe.
 

Futeki

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I was raised Catholic when growing up living with my Mother, and I'm not talking about the regular Catholic teachings, I'm talking about Roman Catholic, which is basically "hardcore catholic" or "Orthodox" if you will. Instead of going to a mass for like 45min-1hr that was said in English, I would go to a mass that took almost 2hrs, and was said in Latin.

Anyway, what does this have to do with anything? Well, I'm just pointing out that I was raised on hardcore beliefs. After 16-18 years of this, I became tired of it all, and just basically gave up on practicing it all. Now I still believe in God and such, I just don't really care in the rules of it all, and due to many other reasons. I feel that if you're a good person and do you're best, then you'll have a good after life, no matter what religion you are.

Now for this whole extremism that is going on as of late in the middle-east. I just don't understand it, along with I don't understand blowing up abortion clinics. Whatever happened to being human beings? Talking things out, coming to a truce among discussions? It seems to always end up with someone being stubborn, and not even willing to agree on a matter, thus creating some sort of legion to carry out missions of what they think is right by strapping a bomb onto somebody, and having said person blow up their enemies, along with women and children that are completely innocent.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for force when needed, but going out on genocidal missions of complete destruction is ridiculous IMO, especially because said people take their scriptures of whatever faith it is that they believe in so literal. People seem to fail to realize that times change, and most religions were forged thousands of years ago, when times were very different indeed.

In the end, I believe that these extremists that are causing all this pain and suffering need to open up their eyes to this new world that we're living in, and to stop living in a past where you could trade a few horses for a nice house.
 

Node1

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The radicalism and all that is associated with Islam is a cultural aspect, it is NOT religious! Religion is a scapegoat to these people, and therefore it has absolutely lost all sacredness that it once may 'ever' had.
 

Futeki

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Node1 said:
The radicalism and all that is associated with Islam is a cultural aspect, it is NOT religious! Religion is a scapegoat to these people, and therefore it has absolutely lost all sacredness that it once may 'ever' had.

Oh yes, don't get me wrong, I don't blame the religion for what some of these extremists have done. I just don't understand why these extremists can't just calm down and talk things out, instead of blowing up buildings and such.
 

munim

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Oh yes, don't get me wrong, I don't blame the religion for what some of these extremists have done. I just don't understand why these extremists can't just calm down and talk things out, instead of blowing up buildings and such.
they wouldn't be extremists then! :biggrin:
anyways the thing is, there are a few muslims who have not got the true meaning of Islam. They didn't realize that Islam is about peace and brotherhood. The various prayers(salat) in Islam are not only supposed to bring you close to god, but close to your fellow men. It is written somewhere in the Quran itself that a Muslim is one who doesn't cause any sort of inconvenience to anyone else. And when I mean inconvenience, I mean even simple things such as rudeness, cheating, deceit... things like war and harming innocents are absolutely out of the question. Any person who does all this cannot be a Muslim.
Unfortunately, these so called "extremists" don't get this message and are not willing to go to the true meaning of Islam. They also have their own political, non religious agenda for their wars.
 

unpixelatedgamers

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I dislike all religion.

It is the largest, non-biological, cause of pain, suffering and death in the history of our species.

Whether by direct, or indirect means. "Holy Wars," religious persecustion, sacrifices, etc.

So, religious extremism coming from Muslims isn't all that surprising.
 

theparadesquare

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Religion to me is false hope and shows man's need to know everything about the world around them, i believe we won't ever find out what's happening and it's just all a lost cause
 

GamingX

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I think it would be better for everyone if this thread is closed......(My opinion) We don't want to have people bitter and angry about comments on their religion. Not everyone is broadminded and no one can bear to see his religion being talked against. There are other places where you can tell what you want about other people's religion....
 

shaunak

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^^^ Exactly my thoughts.
I personally am open to everything, (and an atheist) however many people are not willing to lend an unbiased ear to what others have to say. Religion is usually deep rooted in one's mind and such issues are best left untampered with, even in debates and discussions.

And as far as I know NO religion preaches violence against fellow HUMANS or even animals.
 

alfred

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Well, people don't exactly have much reason to love Islam. Personally I haven't seen a islamic "Red Cross". btw, while there are many islamic doctors out there, working hard and for free to save lives, there is no actual organization.
 

legendphil

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hao!

This isn't a really good topic to discuss (makes big issues out of nothing really, plus generalizing the fact that all Muslims would think the same which is not right <THE THREAD TITLE> ). I'm a Christian, and I can say we have problems of our own, makes me think that we are not all that different. It's just threads like these that make "difference" a cause of conflict.

PS: I participated in this thread?. .. as a balance I guess... and WORLD PEACE:)!
 
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