Does Obama Want to Bring Back Slavery?

cased

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I didn't believe it, but from his own website (http://change.gov/americaserves/):

The Obama Administration will call on Americans to serve in order to meet the nation’s challenges. President-Elect Obama will expand national service programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps and will create a new Classroom Corps to help teachers in underserved schools, as well as a new Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, and Veterans Corps. Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year. Obama will encourage retiring Americans to serve by improving programs available for individuals over age 55, while at the same time promoting youth programs such as Youth Build and Head Start.

This is obviously unconstitutional:

Amendment XIII
Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

For some Middle School kids, this is also illegal:

The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) sets 14 as the minimum age for most non-agricultural work. However, at any age, youth may deliver newspapers; perform in radio, television, movie, or theatrical productions; work in businesses owned by their parents (except in mining, manufacturing or hazardous jobs); and perform babysitting or perform minor chores around a private home. Also, at any age, youth may be employed as homeworkers to gather evergreens and make evergreen wreaths.

Note: I don't believe any of these exceptions would qualify as community service.


What will he do if we refuse? Fine us? Throw us in jail? Not let our kids graduate? It is the worst for college students. These students often need to work to provide for themselves while they are attending school. When they are not working, attending class, or sleeping, they should be studying. This is absurd and I feel this is just the beginning. Why didn't people hear about this before the election?
 

Spartan Erik

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Good grief. I'm sure its unconstitutional if he tries to make it official, but my high school did require us to do 100 hours of community service otherwise we couldn't graduate.

Interesting.. the page updated and now says:
"...high school students do 50 hours of community service a year and by developing a plan so that all college students who conduct 100 hours of community service receive a universal and fully refundable tax credit ensuring that the first $4,000 of their college education is completely free"

Such a plan would cut my tuition in half.. but where would that money come from? That's what I would like to know first.
 
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port5900

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Before you even go all out there. What do you think he is going to have you do work the cotton field? I doubt that very much. In Israel(not sure if its current) you must take part in the military that's a lot of experience I would think. If any thing Obamas plan would teach kids about that evil word.."WORK" but more importantly you will be helping to clean up the environment/neighborhood an probably learn something from it. The reason Obama won is cause he is trying to unite a nation, if you look around now-a-days everyone talk about what they got and how they are better then everyone else and most people just care about them self's no one cares about what they can do for each other. So why are you so worryed? do you only care about your self doing work? -=)
 

rlodge

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I didn't believe it, but from his own website (http://change.gov/americaserves/)
I really can't comment on this fully because when I went to the site listed, I got a "Page Unavailable" error. This is what I would think most Americans would have problems with.
by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year. Obama will encourage retiring Americans to serve by improving programs available for individuals over age 55, while at the same time promoting youth programs such as Youth Build and Head Start.
How is requiring community service going to improve our education system and by the time you reach retirement age, haven't you done enough? Especially since you may never reach retirement age because they keep raising it in an attempt to take some of the burden off the Social Security system.

This is obviously unconstitutional:

Amendment XIII
Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

For some Middle School kids, this is also illegal:

The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) sets 14 as the minimum age for most non-agricultural work. However, at any age, youth may deliver newspapers; perform in radio, television, movie, or theatrical productions; work in businesses owned by their parents (except in mining, manufacturing or hazardous jobs); and perform babysitting or perform minor chores around a private home. Also, at any age, youth may be employed as homeworkers to gather evergreens and make evergreen wreaths.

Note: I don't believe any of these exceptions would qualify as community service.


What will he do if we refuse? Fine us? Throw us in jail? Not let our kids graduate? It is the worst for college students. These students often need to work to provide for themselves while they are attending school. When they are not working, attending class, or sleeping, they should be studying. This is absurd and I feel this is just the beginning. Why didn't people hear about this before the election?
Since when (in the last two to three decades) have you seen an elected official concerned with what is and isn't constitutional? It definitely wasn't the last two administrations. It's just that the last administration was more blatant in their work.

Before you even go all out there. What do you think he is going to have you do work the cotton field? I doubt that very much. In Israel(not sure if its current) you must take part in the military that's a lot of experience I would think. If any thing Obamas plan would teach kids about that evil word.."WORK" but more importantly you will be helping to clean up the environment/neighborhood an probably learn something from it. The reason Obama won is cause he is trying to unite a nation, if you look around now-a-days everyone talk about what they got and how they are better then everyone else and most people just care about them self's no one cares about what they can do for each other. So why are you so worryed? do you only care about your self doing work? -=)

1. We have the quality armed forces that we have because they are voluntary and not conscripted. As far as Israel, their size and the situation / location in which they live requires them to take these drastic measures for the survival of their nation.

2. People are looking at what they have. Not so much to show they are better than everyone else but worrying whether they'll keep it or not. People are more worried about repossession and foreclosure these days. These are very disturbing times in our nation's history.

3. Working for the "collective good of the state" has been tried a couple of times in history and it didn't work. One nation that did this was defeated in 1945 and another lost the cold war.

It's one thing to work to help your fellow man but it's a completely different story being pressed into service in order to help them. If they really want to help, why not create jobs to do these things instead of pressing people into service? Our country's unemployment rate is at a 14 year high and it's looking like it'll only be getting worse.
 

Spartan Erik

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PS the link doesn't work, make sure to remove the parenthesis in the URL that got snagged
 

rlodge

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PS the link doesn't work, make sure to remove the parenthesis in the URL that got snagged

Thanks. Now I got to read it.

It looks like the title of this thread may be a little "Sensationalist". Not trying to be nasty but nowhere in the article did I read about any of this being mandatory.

The only part that was unclear was the "50 hours" of community service for middle school and high school students. It never mentioned voluntary or not.

The 100 hours of community service for college students would give them incentives in the way of a tax credit to pay for their first $4,000 of tuition. It also says that college students who conduct 100 hours of community service would receive this incentive, not that they have to do so.

As for the other services mentioned, he's "calling" on Americans to get involved from what I can read.
 

Spartan Erik

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The 100 hours of community service for college students would give them incentives in the way of a tax credit to pay for their first $4,000 of tuition. It also says that college students who conduct 100 hours of community service would receive this incentive, not that they have to do so.

Well when I first read the article, it did not mention anything about a tuition break.. once it appeared on Digg and I refreshed the page, the sentence regarding the tuition break was added
 

rlodge

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I see. Maybe they changed more of the article, also.

Perhaps President Elect Obama needs to hire a "Proof Reader" for his site? It would definitely help keep him from getting into trouble over a misunderstanding.

We'll see how this all pans out. I do believe that people need to become more involved in their neighborhood and community but not by forcing them to do so. A tax break for college students couldn't hurt, either.

I am still curious how they intend to get 50 hours of community service from middle school and high school students. I don't necessarily think it's a bad idea getting them involved in the community but it needs to be handled correctly.
 

fempower

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Many Americans could use a little discipline and to learn how to help others. Some schools already make the requirement so there's no problem there. Many kids today have it too easy and have everything handed to them on a silver platter. Even a few years ago, kids had to go to school in 2 feet of snow here; nowadays, school's cancelled at the mere mention of possible snow. For many, it's all about them.

Also, we could use the tuition help. Also, many retirees are looking for something to do; if it's something for the good, why not?
 

rlodge

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Many kids today have it too easy and have everything handed to them on a silver platter.

The problem I have with this is that we're now saying we want the government to raise our children through laws instead of becoming a better parent.

Even a few years ago, kids had to go to school in 2 feet of snow here; nowadays, school's cancelled at the mere mention of possible snow. For many, it's all about them.

I'm not sure this is so much "about them" as it is school districts worried about insurance and litigation costs. When I rode a bus to school "a few years ago" in Wisconsin, we needed near white-out conditions to close school. Now, just see what happens if a school bus has an accident in a half inch of snow. "Get rich quick" parents will be suing the districts for endangering their children. Those settlement payments have to come from somewhere.

Also, we could use the tuition help. Also, many retirees are looking for something to do; if it's something for the good, why not?

I totally agree as long as it's voluntary.
 

scottnj

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Even if it wasn't unconstitutional, which I believe it would be, how could anybody possible expect a College student (likely with a part-time job, tons of homework, and possibly a child or spouse) to have to be forced to spend approximately 1.14% of their time involuntarily volunteering?

16 minutes a day might not sound like much, but that is still two hours a week of "volunteer" work. That is more than I do, and I volunteer every Thursday, and soon to be Wednesdays.

Moral of the story: Just doesn't sound right.
 
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Twinkie

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How can you find the words "slavery" out of some community service?? Most high schools already require it, sometimes more. He can encourage people to help out as much as he wants, but as long as it is not official. Its just more slander made by those who wanted McCain.
 

rlodge

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Even if it wasn't unconstitutional, which I believe it would be, how could anybody possible expect a College student (likely with a part-time job, tons of homework, and possibly a child or spouse) to have to be forced to spend approximately 1.14% of their time involuntarily volunteering?

16 minutes a day might not sound like much, but that is still two hours a week of "volunteer" work. That is more than I do, and I volunteer every Thursday, and soon to be Wednesdays.

Moral of the story: Just doesn't sound right.

I have just read the page again and I cannot see anywhere that states any of this is mandatory.

From The Webpage: said:
and by developing a plan so that all college students who conduct 100 hours of community service receive a universal and fully refundable tax credit ensuring that the first $4,000 of their college education is completely free.

(Bold and underlined text done by me for emphasis.)

I may be reading this wrong but it looks to me like they are offering a $4,000 tuition assistance to any college student volunteering 100 hours of community service. Not a bad deal in my opinion, if the students can afford the time.

I still can't see where it says "Mandatory Community Service". I don't think any politician, Democrat or Republican, would want to go down that slippery slope.

Obama may have won by a large margin but public opinion of the office and government itself is still very low and will prevent them from making any kind of "Mandatory Work".
 

scottnj

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I have just read the page again and I cannot see anywhere that states any of this is mandatory.



(Bold and underlined text done by me for emphasis.)

I may be reading this wrong but it looks to me like they are offering a $4,000 tuition assistance to any college student volunteering 100 hours of community service. Not a bad deal in my opinion, if the students can afford the time.

I still can't see where it says "Mandatory Community Service". I don't think any politician, Democrat or Republican, would want to go down that slippery slope.

Obama may have won by a large margin but public opinion of the office and government itself is still very low and will prevent them from making any kind of "Mandatory Work".

Hmmm, you're right. The way Cased put it was that it was mandatory..... So maybe he must have read it wrong. :dunno:
 

fbieventservices

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Hell, 100 hours of community service for $4,000 in tuition? Sign me up. Or am I already signed up? Haha. This is a great idea, but I am also wondering where exactly would this money be coming from? I know the government has a lot of money to spend but if every college student does this how would the government support that?
 

cased

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If you read the passage in my introductory post, that is exactly how it was posted on the website. I copy and pasted. It made no mention of college credit and it stated the hours would be "required". The tuition was added later and the word "required" was taken out. If I was more arrogant, I'd think that somebody from Obama's transition team googled my post and quickly changed it in response.

I would not be against a program that promotes and encourages community service. I think it would be a good idea to ask students to volunteer, run an ad campaign that talks about how good it is for people to volunterr, and giving incentives for people to volunteer. I am against requiring people to do so. Some people can't or shouldn't volunteer. Time is money and like some people don't have money, some people don't have time or using that time to do community service instead of say working a paid job, would cost people money. Sure doing community service or donating to charity is a good thing and I encourage people who can to do so, but forcing someone to do community service would be just as bad as forcing someone to donate to charity.

Another problem I have with this is that like every other government program, it is sure to be filled with exceptions and loop holes and these always seem to invariably favor those who could afford it the most. I don't see any Harvard or Yale students having to do community service. Even if it were Obama's full intention to include everyone, polotics would see that some exception is made for the privledged (now I sound like a rich hating liberal but you know what I'm talking about). Obama doesn't write the laws afterall and Democrats are not immune to being held in the pockets of certain lobbyists. I don't know of any President who always got his way 100% of the time even when the Congress was from the same party (Bush didn't have it as easy as I thought he would). So any policy that forces people to do something will be flawed with inequality and Americans respond better to carrots than sticks.
 

rlodge

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If you read the passage in my introductory post, that is exactly how it was posted on the website. I copy and pasted. It made no mention of college credit and it stated the hours would be "required". The tuition was added later and the word "required" was taken out. If I was more arrogant, I'd think that somebody from Obama's transition team googled my post and quickly changed it in response.

I would not be against a program that promotes and encourages community service. I think it would be a good idea to ask students to volunteer, run an ad campaign that talks about how good it is for people to volunterr, and giving incentives for people to volunteer. I am against requiring people to do so. Some people can't or shouldn't volunteer. Time is money and like some people don't have money, some people don't have time or using that time to do community service instead of say working a paid job, would cost people money. Sure doing community service or donating to charity is a good thing and I encourage people who can to do so, but forcing someone to do community service would be just as bad as forcing someone to donate to charity.

Another problem I have with this is that like every other government program, it is sure to be filled with exceptions and loop holes and these always seem to invariably favor those who could afford it the most. I don't see any Harvard or Yale students having to do community service. Even if it were Obama's full intention to include everyone, polotics would see that some exception is made for the privledged (now I sound like a rich hating liberal but you know what I'm talking about). Obama doesn't write the laws afterall and Democrats are not immune to being held in the pockets of certain lobbyists. I don't know of any President who always got his way 100% of the time even when the Congress was from the same party (Bush didn't have it as easy as I thought he would). So any policy that forces people to do something will be flawed with inequality and Americans respond better to carrots than sticks.

Believe me when I say that I believe that they changed the verbage on the site. It happens. And, YES, equality across the board with no "ear marks and pork" needs to be the rule.

Cased, you bring some very good points to light and it shows that we, the American People will no longer blindly trust our elected officials. Ask clear and concise questions and then demand clear and concise answers. You have the right to demand that they tell you where your tax dollars are being spent

Someone brought up an interesting point. Where will this $4,000 per student come from? A very good question. Maybe something to ask the President Elect himself since he works for YOU!

I had to edit this to say, PLEASE, get involved. Demand answers from your elected officials. Get involved. Don't just cast a vote and hope for the best. YOU hired them. THEY work for you.

Learn who represents you. E-Mail them. Write to them. Call them if you can. Bug them until you, hopefully, get what you want from them. Be sensible. No threats. Just demand that they represent you the way you want to be represented.

And for those of you that didn't vote who live in America, tell them what you want so they'll get your vote next time. Become active. Apathy will be the ruin of us all as apathy is a silent "Yes" vote.

America is one of the most "Loved-Hated" countries in the world. Everyone hates us but many want to come here. Make it the place that everyone wants to come to, not the place everyone wants to hate.

(Enough of my ranting)
 
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bawii

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I think the title of this topic is misleading... community service isn't necessarily "slavery".

Why does community service have such a bad rep? it's not just picking up trash... it could range from serving tea to the elderly to possibly facepainting. it helps build character and also helps your community. I've had good experiences with community service, if you join your school's community service clubs, there's lots of great opportunities to help your home, school, and community while meeting new people on the way (I'm a member of my school's key club, so that's just the key clubber in me talking haha)

100 hours isn't that bad... if you're an ib kid (http://ibo.org/), you'll need 150 hours :/


I think in theory, it's not a bad idea, however, of course it probably won't work out, seeing you'll have kids that want to help out and kids who are there just because they're required to which might ruin the fun :/
 

cased

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100 hours isn't that bad!? Even at minimum wage, that's 655 dollars! That's over a weeks worth of pay at a full time job! Now if you need money to pay for tuition, trading this for 4,000 is a no brainer, but when I was in college, my problem was not tuition. I had all kinds of financial aid from grants to loand, to the GI bill. What I had trouble with was school supplies, school books, rent, food, and other basic needs. $655 to spend on anything I actually needed far outweighed 4,000 I could only spend on tuition costs. This is the real problem with getting an advanced education in my opinion. All financial aid is aimed towards paying the tuition, but that is not the only cost of going to school. Books are expensive as hell, but I had no aid for that. Rent was a big chunk of change and I ended up moving back in with my parents. If a college student is "required" to perform community service regardless of what the service actually is (I don't care if they are requiring you to party and get laid), either working to sustain yourself or studying for tests will suffer.
 
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