fractalfeline
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I hate the FDA, and I hate those who regulate the medication/treatments allowed in any city/state/country!
The FDA actually came into being in the late 1890's and early 1900's because unscrupulous people would sell crap to people claiming it to be a cure-all or somesuch, and their customers would not know that it's crap, and have no way of finding out. So the drug dealers would get the money and the poor suckers who bought it would still be sick and out some money, or worse, find out it's actually a poison and get even sicker. They didn't have the benefit of WebMD or anything of the sort to find out information for themselves and make rational judgments. So? You get to recommend books, that means I get to recommend books too. Try The Jungle by Upton Sinclair. Sinclair was a journalist at that time and decide to write an expose about the conditions in the inner city at the time. Pick it up at the local library maybe?
<snip>
What do I mean? What you learn in school, is said to be "correct"...especially that related to medicine. If you call a person fat long enough...they will beleive they are fat...well...if you tell someone 1 + 2 = 10 for long enough, they will beleive it! Well that is what the world is doing right now! People with power are saying this is right, and that is wrong...then they stuff that garbage at us and we remember it! ...
Reminds me of an Abe Lincoln quote: "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time." There's a lot of wisdom in that little phrase. I think what he was trying to say is that most people have a degree of rationality that allows them to discern reality from non-reality to a good degree, but it's far from perfect. Some people have less, and they will believe anything. If you craft a lie that seems very true, many people will believe it because it seems rational, but these lies rarely last. Eventually people will catch on to a lie because you can't expect rational people to be fooled forever, and they will investigate if it seems a little fishy. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I find it hard to believe that there's a conspiracy so large and so pervasive that it would fool most of everyone for so long and it wouldn't be exposed as such. I also find it hard to believe that a conspiracy that large could be contained so easily, considering how many people out there might have a conscience enough to thwart it somehow, if not exposing it outright, to work underground to topple it.
But then again, if we adhere to a purely Socratic tradition, how DO you know what you know? How do you know anything for sure if you did not see it or hear it yourself? How can you conclude that anything is true unless you have verified it at it's most basic level? What is the most basic level anyhow, and how would you know when you have found the Fundamental Truths upon which to base any future conclusions upon? Ho ho ho, and the whole world collapses. Might be fun to dedicate your life to figuring it out from that perspective.
You said spare you, my list...You go to school...congrats...you are in the medical field...congrats...I have yet to finish High School...and I have yet to make less than 100$ an hour. Does this make sense?
What do you do?
It was not a long list, if my 15 year old neighbor can read each book on her spare time in 3 weeks...you, a "free minded thinking person" an "intellectual" could surely spare a couple days to read what I listed.
Perhaps if I feel bored enough and need a break from studying eh?
It is not a long list, you know it is not. But you know why you don't want to? You are soo stuck into your own beliefs...you believe something soo dearly, that anything against it, is as if it is against you. You have been taught something simultaneously and you have yet to see for yourself if what you were being taught is correct. I hate schools, teaching you what I know, is WRONG, or INCORRECT!
Eat your own words a little eh? How do you know that you are not stuck in your own beliefs? How do you know whether or not you are wrong or incorrect? Perhaps you'll explain how you arrived at these conclusions rather than spouting off about all the rest of everyone being wrong without any proof one way or the other? Declaring it wrong doesn't make it wrong, there must be a reason.
Unless you believe that nothing has a reason, that reason is something we impose upon our world that doesn't actually exist, that any connections, logical or otherwise, that we make between "causes" and "effects" are purely coincidental? Perhaps that our mere belief in reason makes the universe as it is?
http://www.mimir.net/factions/xaositectwhy.html
http://www.mimir.net/factions/signers.html
Please tell me what you think, I would hate for you to stop arguing with me...I recommend you read those books I said...3 in the last post...plus one in this post is 4 books....4 books and 7 days each... tell me what you think in 28 days...you know what I'll give you extra time...how does 31 days sound?
I'd be surprised if I can get my homework done and read 4 books within 31 days. My career vs. Proving something to you. Hmmm, tough choice there.
Yea I know you won't read it...but then if you really wanted to know the truth, wouldn't you be doing all you can to get the truth?
Again, eat your own words. Do some research on the other side a little. Find some history, scientific theory throughout the ages, how the current medical field came into being, current research methods, standards used for publication of papers, how research is funded, how grants work, how peer reviews work, how people obtain supplies for research (rats, chemicals, etc.), public vs private sources of resources, laws governing these practices, and the like. For that matter, write up a comprehensive report of all of it how you see it, the real truth about matters, perhaps with some back up from sources or your own personal experiences with it. Real, concrete things, not vague references that no one can verify.
When I was doing my thesis, I had some real life rats. Albino rats that my professor bought from a company that breeds albino rats for people to experiment upon. I ordered the drugs I was testing on the rats from a company. I had a saline mixture for control, I bought the saline from a company. I had ten rats. Five received the "drug" and five received the "saline." Then I put them in a box with a lever that was hooked to a timer. If they pushed the lever before the time was up, the timer restarted and they got nothing. If they pushed the lever after the time was up, they got a reward. The five that received the drug did better, on average, than the ones that did not receive the drug. That is, the ones with the drug were better able to wait for right amount of time and got more reward than the others. Is that a coincidence that I observed a change in behavior between the drugged rats and the saline rats? Let's consider the possible sources of error:
1. We do not know that the company sold me identical rats. The rats might have something wrong with them. The company may have deliberately sold me rats that were trained to behave that way. (Really? Even when I randomized which group would receive the drug and which wouldn't?)
2. These particular rats are different from other rats in that they would be susceptible to the drug. The company deliberately sold me these rats knowing that I was going to perform that particular drug test in order to convince me that the drug has an effect when really it doesn't. (Wow, how paranoid is that eh?)
3. How do I know whether the drug was actually what was on the label? Or that the saline was actually saline? The company might have sold me the wrong things, deliberately or by accident. (So, either they're conspiring to give me the wrong chemicals or they're totally incompetent fools and need suing.)
So assuming that what I see with my own eyes is accurate, and that the labels are right, and there's nothing strange or peculiar with this particular group of rats, then the drug had an effect on their lever pulling behavior. Would you like to refute what I have seen with my very own eyes and done with my very own hands? (And yes, I left the drug names off deliberately because you could probably find my thesis based on that data alone and it's never a good idea to reveal any info that could lead to say, a real name and address online)
Oh and just for fun for all the rest of you guys who are skimming through the verbage and going zzzzz....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL_-1d9OSdk
Download the pdf too
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Oh, and one more thing, since I'm nooby to this forum in particular... has this forum gotten derailed? Any way to move this discussion to another thread, and leave this one for politics only? Thanks a bunch for any mods or whoever is out there.
Cthulhu for President. Why choose the lesser of two evils anyhow?
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