Healthcare

[jtwhite]

What do you think about all this healthcare stuff? I expect this to be a rather heated debate. Do any of you have jobs in the medical field, how do you, specifically feel about this new bill?

 

[DeadBattery]

I think it's ridiculous.
Many Americans strongly oppose it; now they are still trying to ram it through.
I think they should start from scratch on the thing but that's never going to occur. Obama should listen to the public, not what his party has been longing to do. He should start focusing on jobs and not the battle over healthcare reform.

 

[kinley3]

I agree with DeadBattery. They won't win anyone over by going against the general public's wishes. It's an easy way to keep themselves from getting re-elected.

 

[jtwhite]

I totally agree with the above two posts. I believe that in order to gain more public approval, the congressmen need to listen and exactly as DeadBattery said not do "what his party has been longing to do."

Public option is vital, I really don't want the government totally controlling something as important as health care.

Polls overwhelmingly show the public is against this... Do you think the public will revolt if they force this through?

 

[fractalfeline]

lol Yes! I got my shotgun here and I'm a-gonna go storm the guvner's house! yeeeeee hawwwwwwww

Seriously though, I don't know enough about it. I'll type out a more coherent response when I can dig up the details. Do any of you have them, btw?

If there's anything I'm sure of, it's that the current system NEEDS reform. But I don't know enough about the Obama plan to say whether it might fix the problems or make them worse.

 

[jtwhite]

Yes, I would agree that we need reform, such as promoting nationwide competition to drive costs down. That's one thing that Obama's plan doesn't include.

 

[fractalfeline]

Well, alright. So I'm a medical student, and for the last year or so I've been out of the loop with regards to news, mostly because I don't watch TV anymore. I spend a lot of time studying, and the rest of the time not studying doing mindless things like argue with people on forums lmao

I can tell you what's wrong with the current system, because I'm familiar with How Things Are. I can tell you what the Canadian system is like, because I've spent time over there. But as far as current politics goes, especially about the Obama plan, I have no idea what's going on. I tried looking it up online, but all the news articles talk ABOUT the Obama plan, but don't describe what it IS. There's a lot of dancing around the bush but no going into detail about what's in the bush, if you follow.

So far I've got this: http://blog.taragana.com/health/2010/02/23/obama-health-care-plan-explained-19688/
Is this pretty accurate?

It's starting to sound a lot like mandatory auto insurance, like they have here in Texas. And um, yeah, sure that works. More often than not, I get smacked from behind by some dude on a cell phone who doesn't have insurance even though they're supposed to. And that's assuming it isn't an illegal who learned to drive in Mexico City.

It sounds like to me: they're making filing taxes more complicated than it already is, and still forces buyers to get their insurance via their employer. This is supposed to help the economy? It seems to do nothing to curb out-of-control healthcare prices and things like malpractice reform.

Am I missing something here?

 

[xav0989]

Healthcare is vital, I believe. Where I live, they sorted that option by creating a public healthcare system (not in it's best shape, but it's working) alongside a private one. If someone doesn't have a private healthcare, they are automatically assigned to the public one, so most of the population is with the public one. This is great as most medical things are free, as the cost of the healthcare is taken directly from the taxes.

I believe that the solution for the healthcare in the US is to take a look and learn from the public/private healthcare system from your neighbours up north.

 

[jtwhite]

Healthcare is vital, I believe. Where I live, they sorted that option by creating a public healthcare system (not in it's best shape, but it's working) alongside a private one. If someone doesn't have a private healthcare, they are automatically assigned to the public one, so most of the population is with the public one. This is great as most medical things are free, as the cost of the healthcare is taken directly from the taxes.

I believe that the solution for the healthcare in the US is to take a look and learn from the public/private healthcare system from your neighbours up north.

I heard that you guys have to wait weeks or even months for a broken arm? We don't want that to happen here. The United States has the least waiting time for healthcare right now. I would like that to stay the same. I don't want to have to wait hours for an emergency visit for something like a heart attack.

 

[fractalfeline]

I heard that you guys have to wait weeks or even months for a broken arm? We don't want that to happen here. The United States has the least waiting time for healthcare right now. I would like that to stay the same. I don't want to have to wait hours for an emergency visit for something like a heart attack.

No offense, but you've heard wrong. If anything, it's faster there than it is here.

When I was up there, I was in and out of a clinic in about half an hour, if that. But I've never used the emergency room.

My fiancee, on the other hand, is a native Canadian. I asked him since he knows better. He's been through the EM about 4 times (injuries, motorcycle accidents), and he's like "what wait time?"

I wonder why that rumor is going around. It's utter lies. I smell pro-insurance company agenda.

lol I remember when my fiancee tried to purchase insurance here via his job, and his insurance agent was trying to convince him of "Canadian wait times." He came home laughing about it.

 

[joejv4]

What I've heard about the Canadian Healthcare system, where waiting is concerned, does not involve Emergency Medicine. It involves ongoing care for conditions, including surgery, scheduling a visit at your primary care provider (if you have one), and such. I've also heard that there is a level of rationing that is not seen here in the States. One very telling thing in the news recently, is that when in need of cardiac surgery, Danny Williams, the Premier of Labradore and Newfoundland, opted to have it done in Florida. I do know that pharmaceuticals are much less expensive in Canada, to the point where there is a huge push to legalize mail-order prescriptions to be shipped across the border.

 

[phazzedout]

I utterly hate anyone in the Medical field so my opinion may be bias. I have had many bad experiences with doctors and nurses that makes me want to go to their homes and burn their woman and rape their home.

I am the small percentage of people who have no insurance. Which basically means, if I were to get my arm broken right now I would have to let it heal naturally. Which is not going to happen. There is more which made me detest people in the medical field.

One moment is the time where I had liver pains and the pain became unbearable that I had to drop a class in order to be able to run away with a C- in the rest of my classes. So I went to the free clinic in order to see what I had wrong with me. They took blood tests and gave me an STD test (I asked for both). They still have not told me the results for the STD (one year and counting, I even asked them...). So they contacted many physicians to do all these tests on me. Luckily I didn't pay for any of this because I the clinic gave me emergency medical for a month. All of these physicians just had me running around from hospital to hospital and didn't tell me anything.

After the month was over I was pissed as hell because I literally got every test under the Sun. So the only thing I paid for was to get all my results (they actually charge you for your results, how sad is that). So I decided to take a week off and go to Mexico.

It didn't even take the whole week, the doctor came back after an hour and told me in Spanish that they didn't take much notes on what was wrong with you, they must of not paid much attention. I was mad because he said that all I needed was a blood test which I took at the clinic the first day.

Right now I feel like destroying their homes but I will not stoop to their level. Corrupt pigs...

 

[fractalfeline]

@joejv4
That much is true. From what I know, it varies by province and region. A well-reputed hospital in a busy city (such as Toronto) will have more demand than the every day family practice. It happens here too, but perhaps to a different extent and for different reasons. If you're only approved to visit a certain doctor by your insurance company, you might have to wait to get an appointment, especially if it's a specialty in high demand. The difference in Canada is... you can go to any doctor, with your government issued card, you just PREFER to wait for the doctor you know and trust, or has a good reputation. Though there is, as you say, a degree of rationing. I dare say, a lot of what goes on here in the US in the healthcare biz is frivolous, and we could afford to streamline it. Most of it is a doctor attempting to cover all bases to avoid his arse being dragged into court. You don't need a CT scan to diagnose a head cold And at $2000 a pop... yeah, you don't REALLY need the CT scan.

@phazzedout
Well, perhaps you've pointed out some problems, but this discussion seems to center around government proposed solutions, and whether the Obama bill will help with these problems. And... corruption is universal, it's not limited to one country or one industry Though I agree... I find it appalling that something like 17% of working citizens are not covered by insurance. They work, they pay their taxes, and yet they aren't covered? That's not even including legal residents or the unemployed.

 

[phazzedout]

Both Universal health care and private healthcare can peacefully coexist. I do not need a luxurious health plan just enough to know that if I feel from a stairs that I can get a cast for my broken bones, or that if I were to get in a car crash they could help me. I do not need special things, just to know that I can drive around the freeway worry free (one of the reasons I do not drive at all).

 

[kinley3]

If any of you are aware of Mitt Romney's opinion on this matter, I think he's on the right track. Someone mentioned it above, but he talks about competition and giving consumers more options.

Romney's a sharp guy, and in hindsight I think he would have been the perfect guy for the situation we're in had he been nominated and elected. Now, I'll get off my soapbox

 

[joejv4]

Well, from what I've been able to glean from news reports on Obama-care, the insurance companies helped write it - that is why they're not screaming bloody murder about it. The gov't got them to eliminate denying coverage for pre-existing conditions, and the insurance companies get millions more customers because the gov't has mandated that everyone get health insurance. At the same time, the gov't left the insurance companies' waver for anti-trust laws in place, which allows the insurance companies to continue gouging their customers.

Hold on to your wallets folks, not only is the tax man after it, but the insurance man will be looking for your wallet too!

 

[xav0989]

Those of you that are talking about the canadian wait times, well it's caused mainly by one small problem. There is not enough doctors. All the baby-boomers are going into retirement, and that is why doctors are less and less common, although the current generation is producing quite a lot of doctors (at least, many enter med school). As fractalfeline said, up here, whenever you feel sick, or you want your annual checkup, you simply show up at a clinic, or the hospital, take your governement issue health card, and take an appointment. You don't need the approval of your insurer, and you can't lose coverage (unless you stay out of the province for a long period of time, and other very peculiar non-medical reasons). The waits can be long because since everyone has choice of their doctor, they all want to see the best. This means that some doctors can follow regularly over 5000 patients (and even more), and see other patients in walk-in clinics. As for the surgery that takes ultra long, you can always go private and pay for it, or stay public and keep your money in your pocket.

 

[fractalfeline]

@phazzedout
A sentiment that many share... is it really that difficult to demand a basic amount of healthcare, for all?

@ kinley3 and joejv4
From what I can tell, ObamaCare seems to be attempting to model itself after the Dutch system.

http://www.minvws.nl/en/themes/health-insurance-system/
The Dutch System works kinda like this (from what I can gather):
- Mandatory insurance via private insurance companies
- The lowest income groups and children are given government money to buy insurance
- All insurance companies are not allowed to deny coverage to customers, nor cherry-pick who they will insure. If the customer asks for a policy, they must cover the customer.
- All insurance companies offer the same basic plan. Some insurance companies offer supplemental insurance to cover "luxuries" such as private hospital rooms at extra cost.
- If a customer does not use his/her insurance this year, s/he gets what amounts to a rebate.
- All doctors have access to a highly secure database of records, which allow sharing of information between doctors, to facilitate history-taking and treatment.
- Free competition between insurance companies keeps costs low, since all companies offer the same basic plan. Some competition exists for optional supplemental insurance plans.
- Insurance companies are obligated to offer the same price to their customers, regardless of the customer, regardless of their condition. ie a single company cannot offer cheap insurance to "healthy" customers and expensive insurance to "high-risk" customers
- Insurance companies receive a government allowance to take on "high risk" customers.

Unfortunately, ObamaCare doesn't sufficiently answer some questions I have about differences between this system (which works in the Netherlands) and the proposed system.
- The Netherlands is pretty small, but the US is huge... do we expect it to work on a larger scale?
- Is there a basic plan that all insurance companies offer? Or does the healthcare biz still have to hassle with the details of hundreds of different plans? (Drives up costs!)
- Will there continue to be "deductibles"??
- Is there price-control within each insurance company, or do "healthy" customers get cheaper prices?
- Will there still be insurance physicals to assess the healthiness of a customer before they offer a plan?
- Is there any incentive to the customers to "keep in shape?"
- Is there any incentive to the insurance companies to take on "high risk" individuals?
- Is there any attempt AT ALL to lower healthcare prices? Or do we assume beating insurance companies on the head will drive down the astronomical costs that healthcare providers charge?

For me, ObamaCare seems more penalty-based than incentive-based. I suppose given the circumstances, fines and penalties are more feasible, considering the debt, than tons of handouts. Still, vinegar catches less flies than honey.

 

[phazzedout]

I had to go to the hospital this week, for the whole week. Now, can anyone tell me why IV is 1.1k$? Or why the ambulance is 1.4k$? Am I the only one that thinks there is something wrong there.

 

[essellar]

One very telling thing in the news recently, is that when in need of cardiac surgery, Danny Williams, the Premier of Labradore and Newfoundland, opted to have it done in Florida.

Danny Williams needed a very particular kind of procedure, and a relatively new one at that, and went where there was somebody who had done the procedure over a thousand times successfully. Newfoundland and Labrador might cover a large geographical area, but it has a relatively small population -- about half a million people, which is roughly the size of Miami.
It is not at all uncommon to "farm out" some medical procedures -- often to major regional medical centres in Canada (like Toronto, Montreal, Winnipeg, Halifax and Vancouver), but sometimes to the US as well, especially when there is limited expertise in-country. Keep in mind that Canada is rather sparsely populated, and that a lot of people need to travel a great distance anyway for some kinds of care.

And there will always be frustrations. I "suffer" from an atypical form of Parkinsonism that was a gen-you-wine sonofabee to diagnose and treat. CT, MRI and PET scans might not be handed out to every Tom, Dick and Harry who wants one, but I spent the better part of six months with my head in some kind of scanner at least once a week and seeing one of those doctors (an excellent and persistent neurologist) that "nobody can see" after each scan. Frankly, the diagnosis was done more by trial and error medication than by instrumentation. I wanted my arms, legs and memory back. Nothing seemed to be helping, and nobody could explain what was happening to me. I could have *****ed and moaned about the system (and sometimes did), but I received the kind of care over four years that would have wiped out a privately-insured person, with only a forty-dollar ambulance fee to show for it. And I put quotes around the word "suffer" because I am currently almost asymptomatic and getting better every day thanks to the mess that is the Canadian single-payer, bureaucratic, mismanaged, dictatorial, tyrannical and communistic health care system.