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[bigguy]

Your right it is not an arguement because I don't need to argue with you. How can you prove it....that is not up to us, it's up to you.

"If you were a singer you wouldn't be with a free hosting provider."
it's not an argument, so I just skip it.

"Also we would still require proof of copyright."
How can you prove something, wich isn't copyrighted.
imsingingintheshower.mp3
How can I prove it's origin?

Tyrael

 

[Tyrael]

This is an example from the myspace.com.
Maybe they are smarter lawyers, than we are:

"# Content Posted.

1. MySpace.com may delete any Content that in the sole judgment of MySpace.com violates this Agreement or which may be offensive, illegal or violate the rights, harm, or threaten the safety of any person. MySpace.com assumes no responsibility for monitoring the MySpace Services for inappropriate Content or conduct. If at any time MySpace.com chooses, in its sole discretion, to monitor the MySpace Services, MySpace.com nonetheless assumes no responsibility for the Content, no obligation to modify or remove any inappropriate Content, and no responsibility for the conduct of the User submitting any such Content.
2. You are solely responsible for the Content that you post on or through any of the MySpace Services, and any material or information that you transmit to other Members and for your interactions with other Users. MySpace.com does not endorse and has no control over the Content. Content is not necessarily reviewed by MySpace.com prior to posting and does not necessarily reflect the opinions or policies of MySpace.com. MySpace.com makes no warranties, express or implied, as to the Content or to the accuracy and reliability of the Content or any material or information that you transmit to other Members."

Edit:

Your right it is not an arguement because I don't need to argue with you. How can you prove it....that is not up to us, it's up to you.

if broke the copyright, that can be prove.
if not, then cannot.
If you stole a bike, that can be proved.
If you buy a bike, that can be too (bill)

But if make yourself something (mp3, php script, anything), and you don't copyright it, then how the hack could you prove that isn't copyrighted by somebody else?
In this case the original author, or some organization, wich represent the author have to prove that is copyrighted by them, and make you remove it.

no offense, argueing isn't a bad thing.
sorry my english

Another ?good? example:
You runs a nightclub, then some badlooking guys want to come in.
You can't do that, to not letting them in with this:
"You looks like thugs, I don't let you in, because I would be charged for helping criminals..."
You can call the police, and so, but it's not your responsibility or duty to decide who is a bad guy, and who isn't.

Tyrael

 

[bigguy]

Well, that's all good for myspace but we are not there and go by our own T.O.S.

x10Hosting does not allow any of the following content to be stored on its servers:
» Illegal Material : This includes copyrighted works, commercial audio, video, or music files, and any material in violation of any Federal, State or Local regulation. You may not store copyrighted Mp3s on your webspace in any way shape or form.

» Adult Material : Includes all pornography, erotic images, or otherwise lewd or obscene content. The designation of "adult material" is left entirely to the discretion of x10Hosting.

» Warez : Includes pirated software, ROMS, emulators, phreaking, hacking, password cracking, IP spoofing, etc., and encrypting of any of the above. Also includes any sites which provide "links to" or "how to" information about such material.

» Anime : Copyrighted anime is not allowed on our servers. This includes variations of anime including manga, hentai etc. Also inlcudes any sites which provide links to information about such material. If you created the material yourself, you may host the content on your site.

» Proxies : We do not allow proxies of any kind on our servers.

Like I said if you prove to us you have permission to use the said copyrighted material we will allow it but you have to show proof. If ot it comes off.

 

[Starshine]

Copyright issues will be argued in courts for years and years to come. Over songs, lyrics, written work, paintings, speech, etc.

When you signed up for this hosting package, weather you read it or not, you agreed to abide by the Terms of Service of this hosting service. There wasn't a section that said "I agree only if it suits me or I can argue one point or another" - It said "I agree to follow ..." ( Or something along those lines. )

So, as Geoff said - you will have to provide proof of acceptance to use the copywritten material, or have it removed from your site. There is no gray area here, no place for argument on how to prove if it is or not. x10 doesn't need to prove if its copywritten or not, just the person who agreed to the TOS. ( Which, as it happens, is you in this case )

Edit :

Another ?good? example:
You runs a nightclub, then some badlooking guys want to come in.
You can't do that, to not letting them in with this:
"You looks like thugs, I don't let you in, because I would be charged for helping criminals..."
You can call the police, and so, but it's not your responsibility or duty to decide who is a bad guy, and who isn't.

Actually, in many places, you can. Its called "Right to refuse service to anyone." A business can deny service to anyone, for any reason. And if its a nightclub, the bouncers decide who is allowed in or not. So, again, that follows the law. Businesses have a right, as x10 has a right to decide what they deem to be copywritten work, illegal content.
Some countries don't care about downloading mp3s, bootlegging movies, etc - the US does and thats where x10 is based. So, we must abide by US laws.

 

[Tyrael]

Well, that's all good for myspace but we are not there and go by our own T.O.S.

x10Hosting does not allow any of the following content to be stored on its servers:
» Illegal Material : This includes copyrighted works, commercial audio, video, or music files, and any material in violation of any Federal, State or Local regulation. You may not store copyrighted Mp3s on your webspace in any way shape or form.

» Adult Material : Includes all pornography, erotic images, or otherwise lewd or obscene content. The designation of "adult material" is left entirely to the discretion of x10Hosting.

» Warez : Includes pirated software, ROMS, emulators, phreaking, hacking, password cracking, IP spoofing, etc., and encrypting of any of the above. Also includes any sites which provide "links to" or "how to" information about such material.

» Anime : Copyrighted anime is not allowed on our servers. This includes variations of anime including manga, hentai etc. Also inlcudes any sites which provide links to information about such material. If you created the material yourself, you may host the content on your site.

» Proxies : We do not allow proxies of any kind on our servers.

Like I said if you prove to us you have permission to use the said copyrighted material we will allow it but you have to show proof. If ot it comes off.

I read the TOS when I registered, just don't understand why is it good for you.
So much plus work for you, and the users have to prove their innocent.
Usually everywhere banned the illegal/copyrighted content, but they do they, as I said:
When it's proved or marked as inpropriate then check it, and remove.
This is how google video, youtube, orkut, metacafe, myspace, all of the file sharing service (filespace, megaupload, etc.) and all of the webhosting provider what I've seen in my life.
It's just odd, that you didn't do this way.

Tyrael

 

[bigguy]

I don't think it is odd at all. We want anything that breaks the T.O.S. off the servers as fast as possible.

 

[Tyrael]

Copyright issues will be argued in courts for years and years to come. Over songs, lyrics, written work, paintings, speech, etc.

When you signed up for this hosting package, weather you read it or not, you agreed to abide by the Terms of Service of this hosting service. There wasn't a section that said "I agree only if it suits me or I can argue one point or another" - It said "I agree to follow ..." ( Or something along those lines. )

So, as Geoff said - you will have to provide proof of acceptance to use the copywritten material, or have it removed from your site. There is no gray area here, no place for argument on how to prove if it is or not. x10 doesn't need to prove if its copywritten or not, just the person who agreed to the TOS. ( Which, as it happens, is you in this case )

Edit :




Actually, in many places, you can. Its called "Right to refuse service to anyone." A business can deny service to anyone, for any reason. And if its a nightclub, the bouncers decide who is allowed in or not. So, again, that follows the law. Businesses have a right, as x10 has a right to decide what they deem to be copywritten work, illegal content.
Some countries don't care about downloading mp3s, bootlegging movies, etc - the US does and thats where x10 is based. So, we must abide by US laws.

I hope you don't thought I was something to hide...
I don't have any illegal material and I don't want to broke any of the points of TOS.
And as I said before: I read the TOS, when I registered, as I always do.

Yes you are right, you can deny the service, but you could reasonable for doing this.
Because --I hope-- you don't want to cause any unnecessary nuisance for those whom follow the rules.

Tyrael
Edit:

I don't think it is odd at all. We want anything that breaks the T.O.S. off the servers as fast as possible.

instead of this you shut down an acount wich MAYBE breaks the TOS.

Tyrael

 

[bigguy]

We do not want to cause problems for the rest of the customers on the servers if we do not shut things down right away this COULD lead to problems for everyone (probably not but to be safe) Yes I did shut him down but also I have talked to him and unsuspended him.

Instead of showing us proof he removed the vb, enough said about that. If you still have problems with the T.O.S. I can put you in contact with an Admin. I will not argue the point with you anymore. We have been going by these T.O.S. since the site opened and will not be changing it now because you don't agree with it. Would you like to talk to an admin about this problem you are having with someone elses account or how we conduct our bussiness. ????

 

[Starshine]

We are being reasonable, Tyrael. We suspend someone's account first, allowing them time to prove their account is not in violation. We are all human and make mistakes.
But, Corey could get sued because no matter what, its his money that pays for the servers, and so he is under the rules of those that own the servers. So if someone uploads something on the servers and he allows it, not only is the user of the account liable, but so would Corey.

As Geoff said, we've gone round and round with this. The rules were in place when the site opened, and won't change. If you have issues with it, take it up with Corey. If you have issues with someone's account, please PM me and I will do my best to solve the complaint fairly.

Otherwise, this has been answered. Please do not continue to argue this. We, as staff, have to follow what is written in the TOS. Some of us may not agree by a lot of it either, but we must follow it.

 

[Tyrael]

"But, Corey could get sued because no matter what, its his money that pays for the servers, and so he is under the rules of those that own the servers. So if someone uploads something on the servers and he allows it, not only is the user of the account liable, but so would Corey."
It's not true. I don't said that he would allow copyrighted materialt to be uploaded.
I said that in the potential cases, don't assume the worst about the user.
Don't close it out from the service, and demand for proofes, but ask for his/her assistence for solve the situation.
Maybe this is the same thing that you are doing right now, with this "suspend" account thing, but I think it could be more humanly.

But I get your point.
I just hoped, that here we could do some substantive dispute, but it's meaningles if this out of your scope of authority.
If you can do for me, pls. tell Corey to read this topic.
And I DON'T want to cause him any problem, and I DON'T want upload anything questionable, it was just a theoretical dispute, but sadly I couldn't convince somebody, who isn't want to be convinced.

Tyrael

 

[Corey]

Tyrael,

We as a free hosting provider have to do our best to stop copyrighted material from appearing on the server BEFORE we receive a DMCA notice. I am protected under the DMCA but no upstream provider will be willing to host us if we get a ton of DMCA complaints. It becomes a liability for them and for us. Therefor we have to be proactive regarding copyrighted works and not reactive. Most of our staff are familiar with what is usually a copyright violation. I can guarantee you that you would not be suspended unless we were very sure the object you were hosting was copyrighted.

In regards to your example, I understand what you are saying perfectly. If we found 'singingintheshower.mp3', you would not be suspended for that nor the copyright questioned because it is not something that is normally found to be copyrighted. Like I said, we have about 3 years of experience now with recognizing copyright infringement. Why vBulletin is generally scrutinized more than normal is that it costs a good deal of money for the license. Usually if someone can afford vBulletin they do not need free hosting. Especially when the 'Powered by vBulletin' is missing which is just another cost that someone using free hosting would not normally have.

I can tell you in our 3 years of free hosting that we have never suspended someone with a legal vBulletin forum. And in the rare case that we just might do it, the mistake is worth all the legal trouble that we avoid.

-Corey

 

[Tyrael]

Tyrael,

We as a free hosting provider have to do our best to stop copyrighted material from appearing on the server BEFORE we receive a DMCA notice. I am protected under the DMCA but no upstream provider will be willing to host us if we get a ton of DMCA complaints. It becomes a liability for them and for us. Therefor we have to be proactive regarding copyrighted works and not reactive. Most of our staff are familiar with what is usually a copyright violation. I can guarantee you that you would not be suspended unless we were very sure the object you were hosting was copyrighted.

In regards to your example, I understand what you are saying perfectly. If we found 'singingintheshower.mp3', you would not be suspended for that nor the copyright questioned because it is not something that is normally found to be copyrighted. Like I said, we have about 3 years of experience now with recognizing copyright infringement. Why vBulletin is generally scrutinized more than normal is that it costs a good deal of money for the license. Usually if someone can afford vBulletin they do not need free hosting. Especially when the 'Powered by vBulletin' is missing which is just another cost that someone using free hosting would not normally have.

I can tell you in our 3 years of free hosting that we have never suspended someone with a legal vBulletin forum. And in the rare case that we just might do it, the mistake is worth all the legal trouble that we avoid.

-Corey

Thank you for you time, and for the reply.
I think maybe I overreacted this suspend, and now that you clarified your standpoint I think we can close this subject.
I hope you all know that it wasn't anything personal, I just a little bit sensitive about prejudice.

Tyrael