The Ultimate Goal of Life

[Cymro]

Bacteria had this DNA before they ever landed in this pool. You see, all it took was 1 bacterium with the proper DNA to get into that pool.
All the other bacteria could die off, but that one would have the neccessary DNA to survive. It will be able to reproduce at the rate of once ever 20 min. within a day, that pool will be swarming with hundreds of thousands of these bacteria. That's my theory on how these bacteria got there. Science has proved that that is the case with antibiotics (it was previously believed that bacteria evolved to become resistant to antibiotcs).

And your source for that is what, exactly?

But that has nothing to do life. Those crystals are dead. They are not any closer to being alive than the beginning chemicles were.

You said "The energy needs to be applied in a way that creates order.", and so I demonstrated an example of where the application can create order.

All matter needs to have a beginning.
Pure energy? :hyper: Where did the energy come from?

We don't know yet. On the same note, where did God come from?

 

[ichwar]

And your source for that is?

My science teacher. Dr. Wile. You ever heard of him? He's got a whole curriculum out there, but I don't know if you've ever heard of it.

You said "The energy needs to be applied in a way that creates order.", and so I demonstrated an example of where it does create order.

I don't define that as order, it's simply a bunch of crystals, nothing is "better" or "more functional" than it was before.

We don't know yet. On the same note, where did God come from?

He has always been. But God is not matter. He is spirit.

 

[Kayos]

My science teacher. Dr. Wile. You ever heard of him? He's got a whole curriculum out there, but I don't know if you've ever heard of it.

Dr. Wile from Mega Man? Oh wait that's Dr. Wily, nevermind.

He has always been. But God is not matter. He is spirit.

Where do spirits come from?

 

[BentFX]

Where do spirits come from?

Where do big bangs come from?
Edit:
Oops! two line minimum...
String theory proposes eleven spacial dimensions, of which we occupy three and a half. Membrane theory which piggybacks on string theory states our observable universe is simply foam in dimension zero.

What else resides in ZeroD.

We talk about the laws of physics... Who wrote physics?

 

[ichwar]

Where do spirits come from?

God created all spirits. He Himself has always been. That is not impossible because spirits are not physical matter.

 

[Cymro]

So we have to back up everything that we say, but if we ask similar questions to you you're allowed to answer with "goddidit".

I don't think there's much point in us trying to debate, do you?

 

[ichwar]

So we have to back up everything that we say, but if we ask similar questions to you you're allowed to answer with "goddidit".

I don't think there's much point in us trying to debate, do you?

You're correct. I don't need a "Scientifical" explanation for what ever I say, because God did it.

You, on the other hand, claim that God doesn't exist, therefore, you need to have some reason for something happening. You can't say that God created it, because you don't believe in God, so you have to look to science for an answer. I don't, God is my answer.

So, I give my reason: God, and you give your reason: Science. Well, science is all about giving plausable reasons. So, if you can't give me a plausable reason for something, then, you're not using Science.

 

[ichwar]

Re: Do you believe in God?

no. i have never seen any evidence for any god ever. being the skeptical person that i am, i employ the null hypothesis to any positive claim i'm exposed to - if the evidence shows the null is wrong, then i adjust my view accordingly. on the issue of god, so far it hasn't.

No evidence? Where did we come from?

 

[truthguild]

Re: Do you believe in God?

No evidence? Where did we come from?

well, how do you mean the word "we"? do you mean us as individuals? parents engaging in sexual reproduction.
we as in humans? evolutionary theory provides a rather comprehensive history to human origins.
we as in life itself? we don't have a comprehensive explanation for abiogenesis yet. not knowing how something happened isn't evidence for a supernatural explanation.

 

[Kayos]

No one said science has all the answers. That doesn't mean "God" should fill in the blanks, it means that we have not yet found them. Science is based on evidence, not faith.

So really it is pointless to argue factual evidence against faith. It doesn't make faith right, it's just a waste of time and energy.

 

[ichwar]

No one said science has all the answers. That doesn't mean "God" should fill in the blanks, it means that we have not yet found them. Science is based on evidence, not faith.

So really it is pointless to argue factual evidence against faith. It doesn't make faith right, it's just a waste of time and energy.

I never said Science was wrong. I said that if you are going to use Science alone to answer a question, then you need to provide evidence, it's not enough to just say something.

 

[Kayos]

I never said Science was wrong. I said that if you are going to use Science alone to answer a question, then you need to provide evidence, it's not enough to just say something.

That's why people who understand science think it's pointless to debate the issue. You'll always crumble back to your faith citing that "God did everything". As I said before, science does not have all of the answers. Does that mean science will never have the answers? Absolutely not.

Science is not a list of whats right and whats wrong, it a way of finding answers.

 

[ichwar]

Re: Do you believe in God?

well, how do you mean the word "we"? do you mean us as individuals? parents engaging in sexual reproduction.
we as in humans? evolutionary theory provides a rather comprehensive history to human origins.
we as in life itself? we don't have a comprehensive explanation for abiogenesis yet. not knowing how something happened isn't evidence for a supernatural explanation.

I mean we as in Humans. Evolutionary theory does not provide satisfactory information.

Think of it this way:
"If you found an intel core2 duo proccessor, just, lying out in the middle of the road. Would you think that it evolved? I mean, maybe it could of started out as just some sand that got onto the street, and then maybe some lightning hit the street, and Kaboom, all that energy turned the sand into small lumps of sylicon, And then perhaps a car drove over one of them while it was still warm, and flattened it into a sylicon chip, and then, maybe somehow, we don't quite know how it happened yet, it must have evolved into this proccessor, because that's the only way I can think of that this proccessor ever got here in the middle of the road."

Of course not, something that complex could NEVER have just evolved from sand. Yet, you think, that we (humans), much more complex than any proccessor that ever was built, could of somehow evolved from some sheer engergy, at some unknown time in some unknown way?
To me, evolution is a much larger jump of faith, than believing in the existence of God.

 

[ichwar]

That's why people who understand science think it's pointless to debate the issue. You'll always crumble back to your faith citing that "God did everything". As I said before, science does not have all of the answers. Does that mean science will never have the answers? Absolutely not.

Science is not a list of whats right and whats wrong, it a way of finding answers.

And what, pray tell, is wrong with God doing everything? Do you have something against God? Do you not like Him? Maybe you got into a quarrel with Him and so now, you're pretending to ignore Him? lol

Ok, seriously, what do you have against God?

About science answereing questions, you are right. BUT, science hasn't proven any thing about the evolutionary process yet. As far as I know, it is still just an overly popular idea, that floats about in man's head. I mean, where are all the intermediate fossil links? There aren't any yet. You see, there just isn't any evidence for evolution.

 

[truthguild]

Re: Do you believe in God?

I mean we as in Humans. Evolutionary theory does not provide satisfactory information.

Think of it this way:
"If you found an intel core2 duo proccessor, just, lying out in the middle of the road. Would you think that it evolved? I mean, maybe it could of started out as just some sand that got onto the street, and then maybe some lightning hit the street, and Kaboom, all that energy turned the sand into small lumps of sylicon, And then perhaps a car drove over one of them while it was still warm, and flattened it into a sylicon chip, and then, maybe somehow, we don't quite know how it happened yet, it must have evolved into this proccessor, because that's the only way I can think of that this proccessor ever got here in the middle of the road."

allow me to make a suggestion - don't use arguments that are so old they have names, since every one of them has long ago been refuted.
Of course not, something that complex could NEVER have just evolved from sand. Yet, you think, that we (humans), much more complex than any proccessor that ever was built, could of somehow evolved from some sheer engergy, at some unknown time in some unknown way?
To me, evolution is a much larger jump of faith, than believing in the existence of God.

this is what is known as the watchmaker argument and is completely fellacious. first, the processor isn't alive. secondly, it doesn't reproduce. thirdly, it is not subject to mutation. fourthly, it is not subject to natural selection.
evolution is one of the best supported theories in science in terms of evidence (surpassing even the theory of gravity). evolution works by descent with modification via mutation and genetic drift and natural selection. the modifications are somewhat random, however, natural selection is extremely determinalistic.

the other problem with this argument is that it describes something as being too complex to be self-existing, and incorporates an even more complex being to fill it while offering no explanation for this more complex being (which by the logic of the argument is too complex to self-exist). if life is improbably complex without god, it is infinately far more improbably complex with god.

 

[Kayos]

And what, pray tell, is wrong with God doing everything? Do you have something against God? Do you not like Him? Maybe you got into a quarrel with Him and so now, you're pretending to ignore Him? lol

Ok, seriously, what do you have against God?

The thing is I'm not lying to myself when I say there is no "God".

Anyway, it seems like you're trying to divert the topic away from it's original intention again. Did I strike a nerve or something? That's not my intention. Honestly I don't care if you believe in "God".

About science answereing questions, you are right. BUT, science hasn't proven any thing about the evolutionary process yet. As far as I know, it is still just an overly popular idea, that floats about in man's head. I mean, where are all the intermediate fossil links? There aren't any yet. You see, there just isn't any evidence for evolution.

Really? No evidence at all?

 

[ichwar]

Re: Do you believe in God?

this is what is known as the watchmaker argument and is completely fellacious. first, the processor isn't alive. secondly, it doesn't reproduce. thirdly, it is not subject to mutation. fourthly, it is not subject to natural selection.
evolution is one of the best supported theories in science in terms of evidence (surpassing even the theory of gravity). evolution works by descent with modification via mutation and genetic drift and natural selection. the modifications are somewhat random, however, natural selection is extremely determinalistic.

Yet, at the same time, mutations do not add any thing to a cells DNA, they only serve to take away some existing information, not add anything.

the other problem with this argument is that it describes something as being too complex to be self-existing, and incorporates an even more complex being to fill it while offering no explanation for this more complex being (which by the logic of the argument is too complex to self-exist). if life is improbably complex without god, it is infinately far more improbably complex with god.

No, God is Spirit, we are talking about physical matter. All physical matter must originate somewhere. Spirit does not need an origin, because it is not inside of dimension.

 

[truthguild]

Re: Do you believe in God?

Yet, at the same time, mutations do not add any thing to a cells DNA, they only serve to take away some existing information, not add anything.

gene duplication mutations and frame shift mutations (both observed and confirmed) add genetic material to the DNA

No, God is Spirit, we are talking about physical matter. All physical matter must originate somewhere. Spirit does not need an origin, because it is not inside of dimension.

and physical matter is well explained by the Big Bang theory. and do you have any evidence supporting the existance of spirit, and that it is not in a dimension?

 

[ichwar]

The thing is I'm not lying to myself when I say there is no "God".

Anyway, it seems like you're trying to divert the topic away from it's original intention again. Did I strike a nerve or something? That's not my intention. Honestly I don't care if you believe in "God".

No, I'm not trying to divert the topic away from its original intention.
The topic is 'The Ultimate Goal of Life' I don't believe we can know what the ultimate goal of life is unless we first come to a conclusion on whether or not God exists.
Because, if God does exist, then the goal of life would be something along the lines of trying to please Him and get His favor.
But, if there is no God, then the ultimate goal of life is more like: 'Eat, Drink, and be Merry, for Tomorrow, We Die.'

Really? No evidence at all?

Nope, no evidence that I have heard of. And I've studied this quite a bit.
Ofcourse, don't get me wrong in this, there plenty of things people bring for as 'evidence' but when examined closely in light of what we already know to be true, it all crumbles apart.
Have you found any new evidence?

 

[ichwar]

Re: Do you believe in God?

gene duplication mutations and frame shift mutations (both observed and confirmed) add genetic material to the DNA

Citation needed for that claim please.

and physical matter is well explained by the Big Bang theory. and do you have any evidence supporting the existance of spirit, and that it is not in a dimension?

Yes, let's look at a Dictionary definiton of spirit: The intelligent, immaterial and immortal part of human beings.
Notice "immaterial". It doesn't take up any space, or, in short, not in any of the dimensions.

Of course, you could start arguing over the meaning of spirit, but if you do that, we'll have to start debating in a different language, since we can't come to an agreement on the words in the english language.
What other languages do you know? lol just kidding.