Your view on Georgia Vs. Russia conflict

[naerey]

I'm pretty sure that everyone has already heard about the war in South Ossetia, though I doubt anyone has heard it all.

Here's a portion of the article from wikipedia (read all):
During the night and early morning of August 7, Georgia launched a military offensive to surround and capture the capital of separatist Republic of South Ossetia, Tskhinvali thus breaking the terms of the 1992 ceasefire and crossing into the security zone established therein. The following day Russian forces attacked Georgian units in South Ossetia and subsequently moved farther into mainland Georgia.

NOTE:
-Georgia attacked with artillery directly on the Capital city of South Ossetia, destroying homes of civilians.
-Russia retaliated by destroying Georgia's whole military infrastructure and bases, also conquering all the tanks/ammunition that the Georgian army left behind.
-Georgia now is being helped by USA, Germany, Sweden, France and many other countries. The only country helping South Ossetia is Russia.

Is Russia trying to get new territories, or is it Georgia trying to do an Ethnic Cleansing?
Considering it's Georgia that attacked (right after it said they will maintain the ceasefire), I'd say the latter..

 

[callumacrae]

Haven't they made a new ceasefire?

Ooh, but russia wouldn't...

I think russia are in the wrong, but it's Georgia's fault for starting it. Or something.

 

[Dan]

From what I have read and heard, I'd say that Russia is in the wrong.
Georgia started to attack because Russia started giving out russian passports and things and started to persuade everyone in South Ossetia to turn back to russia didn't they?

 

[Spartan Erik]

From what I have read and heard, I'd say that Russia is in the wrong.
Georgia started to attack because Russia started giving out russian passports and things and started to persuade everyone in South Ossetia to turn back to russia didn't they?

From what I understand, the majority of people in South Ossetia ARE Russian, hence they had Russian passports, etc.

Georgia started it, and I believe that Russia is doing whatever is in its best interest. Taking out infrastructure may seem a little extreme, but when it comes to war/land grab you need to do what's necessary to win.

Either way, both governments are puppets for the mafia. Putin is a billionaire.. and you don't become a billionaire on Russian salaries for government..

 

[MadameSkylark]

I side with Russia here. South Ossetia started it, Russia was in the right to defend themselves from further attack by eliminating the threat. If someone uses a gun against you, you're well within your rights to knock said gun out of their hand and then kick them in the face for good measure.

 

[naerey]

From what I understand, the majority of people in South Ossetia ARE Russian, hence they had Russian passports, etc.

Georgia started it, and I believe that Russia is doing whatever is in its best interest. Taking out infrastructure may seem a little extreme, but when it comes to war/land grab you need to do what's necessary to win.

Either way, both governments are puppets for the mafia. Putin is a billionaire.. and you don't become a billionaire on Russian salaries for government..

... are you kidding??
Putin? A billionaire? His bank accounts hold less than what your home is worth!! (150,000 $ +some shares)
Though he is the ex-head of the KGB.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Putin#Personal_wealth

 

[Spartan Erik]

... are you kidding??
Putin? A billionaire? His bank accounts hold less than what your home is worth!! (150,000 $ +some shares)
Though he is the ex-head of the KGB.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Putin#Personal_wealth

Did you read past the first paragraph?

"On the other hand, there have been some allegations that Putin secretly owns a large fortune. According to former Chairman of the Russian State Duma Ivan Rybkin[264][265], and Russian political scientist Stanislav Belkovsky[266][267], Putin controls a 4.5% stake (approx. $13 billion) in Gazprom, 37% (approx. $20 billion) in Surgutneftegaz and 50% in the oil-trading company Gunvor run by Gennady Timchenko, a close friend. Gunvor's turnover in 2007 was $40 billion."

 

[naerey]

Did you read past the first paragraph?

"On the other hand, there have been some allegations that Putin secretly owns a large fortune. According to former Chairman of the Russian State Duma Ivan Rybkin[264][265], and Russian political scientist Stanislav Belkovsky[266][267], Putin controls a 4.5% stake (approx. $13 billion) in Gazprom, 37% (approx. $20 billion) in Surgutneftegaz and 50% in the oil-trading company Gunvor run by Gennady Timchenko, a close friend. Gunvor's turnover in 2007 was $40 billion."

Er, yes I read the whole article.
So, would you really think that with $40 billion he'd be leading the life he is now? He could just retire and spend the rest of his life at the Bahamas instead.. I mean, he's already 56 years old..
Anyways, you can't always believe speculations. Surely he's got more money than he says, but not THAT much.

Back on topic..
@MadameSkilark - Actually I'd dare-say that Georgia started it.

@Dan - so, if a country gives out passports, you have the right to kill the civilians that took them?

 

[BentFX]

I favor South Ossetia. I saw one interview with a south ossetian refugee in a russian refugee camp. He stated that the Georgian forces attacked civilians. He stated that the Georgian forces drove civilians from the streets, then threw hand grenades into basements where civilians were seeking shelter. If the US had a conflict on our border where civilians were fleeing for thier lives, I would hope that we would take action to stop the violence.

Yes, Russia needs to stand down. But Georgia needs to stand accusation and trial for war crimes.

South Ossetia deserves to have choices regarding its future. Yet those choices don't appear to include sovereign nationality. In fact given the situation South Ossetia is over a barrel, where it has few good choices. I believe South Ossetia is going to be a province, whether it is Russian or Georgian remains to be seen.

 

[scorch94]

You can't really say some country is doing something wrong. I mean this is isn't a movie where bad and good guys exist. This is real world -- thus leaders do what's in interest of them and their people. Wouldn't you do your best for your family and yourself? Of course you would!
Maybe some countries just don't do it well and wisely...

 

[naerey]

You can't really say some country is doing something wrong. I mean this is isn't a movie where bad and good guys exist. This is real world -- thus leaders do what's in interest of them and their people. Wouldn't you do your best for your family and yourself? Of course you would!
Maybe some countries just don't do it well and wisely...

Oh trust me you CAN say when some country is doing bad. Nazi Germany maybe? And surely Georgia. No war is justified, and they started one.
What is hard to say is when a country is doing Good.. Since for them, most are. However I'd have to say that the Georgian government did only harm to themselves with this war. They lost military infrastructure, as well as people. Not to say public appearance - in fact Georgian government doesn't have much support anymore.

 

[scorch94]

Hitler was weird, but he's done everything just for benefit of German people. He has failed in the end, yes, but... he's done it for Germany.

 

[kirtik]

I side with Russia here. South Ossetia started it, Russia was in the right to defend themselves from further attack by eliminating the threat. If someone uses a gun against you, you're well within your rights to knock said gun out of their hand and then kick them in the face for good measure.

What? You mean Georgia, surely. From my understanding, this is what happened:
> South Ossetian rebels 'rebel'
> Georgia declares war on these rebels
> Russia doesn't like that, because it is sympathetic to the rebels
> Russia moves in and removes Georgia, and invades Georgia, to show them who's boss.
> They stay there, and effectively 'say' to Georgia that it should keep quiet and 'make them pay' for stepping out of line.
> Russia remain in South Ossetia and Abkhazia...

 

[masteraa]

hippies lol? overall i havent been following this on the news as much as i should be, i dont even nkow what the lastest developents are.

 

[naerey]

What? You mean Georgia, surely. From my understanding, this is what happened:
> South Ossetian rebels 'rebel'
> Georgia declares war on these rebels
> Russia doesn't like that, because it is sympathetic to the rebels
> Russia moves in and removes Georgia, and invades Georgia, to show them who's boss.
> They stay there, and effectively 'say' to Georgia that it should keep quiet and 'make them pay' for stepping out of line.
> Russia remain in South Ossetia and Abkhazia...

*South Ossetians have never been part of Georgia before, and thus they want their rightful Independence which they have been asking since 1990
*Georgia did not "declare war on the rebels" but started shooting with HEAVY artillery at CIVILI BUILDINGS
*Russia doesn't like that (what kind of country would like to see a city being bombed? USA?)
*Russia moves in and removes Georgian Military, does NOT invade Georgia since they didn't take any cities except military bases
*Immediately after, as well as during, the conflict bands of 'pirates' (or 'terrorists' if you wish) start forming both in South Ossetia and Georgia and start burning/pillaging towns where there is no military/police (remember? all georgian police/military ran off, while in South Ossetia it was killed by Georgia)
*Russia remains in South Ossetia and Abkhazia


What would the USA have done if some country attacked their own citiziens (large part of South Ossetia are russians) ?
Let me just remind you that the war in Iraq was done because "they COULD have harmed USA civilians".
Here they(Georgia) have done what could be considered an Ethnic Cleansing.
And let's not talk about Kosovo, which was granted independence this summer because Serbia (or bosnia) was committing genocide (fact that was later proven fake by the UN).

 

[Cobol to Java]

Hmmmm...US and Russia are both in bad temper right now...well nothing new... it's just like the cold wars thawed a little bit this time. But I'm sure it's going to freeze right back up.

 

[naerey]

That would be bad ¬.¬

Consider also that McCain is considering to actually WAR Russia... O_O

WWIII?

 

[mattura]

Just thought I'd share this:

http://www.matt.elementfx.com/x_bc6818f4.jpg

 

[Dan]

Just thought I'd share this:

http://www.matt.elementfx.com/x_bc6818f4.jpg

That is quite funny.
Try posting it in the funny pictures thread in the Off-topic section/