Are you a Lefty, Moderate or Righty?

nuria

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I sort of hesitated before posting here... My first proper post and I'll disagree with people, I wonder what you'll think of me :p but, oh well. Let's go.

I'm not really that into politics, but I have to say that most of my opinions are very inclined to the Left. Yay for gay people getting married, pro-abortion, war in Iraq makes my heart ache, blah blah blah. The only thing I'm not quite sure about is death penalty: I'm sort of against it, unless in exetreme cases like this one.

Anyway... for everyone talking about immigrants and how they should be killed (not very nice, hm?) I ask you this: Have you ever stopped to wonder WHY are they in your country and not in theirs? Perhaps they are trying to avoid poverty. And what do you have to do with it? What does the United States have to do with poverty in other countries?

And this goes not only for the United States, it also works in other situations. Europeans are now dealing with massive illegal immigration from Africa. They should've expected it when they colonized Africa and explored the people there.
 

WyrGecko

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I'll go with spotty :p

If I were to total everything up, I'd probably lean more towards the left, though I have a few that I'd probably be considered strongly on the right for.

I don't see how being on either side is bad, as long as people remain rational and can debate at a higher level than "well, I'm right; that's it." and support. On another note, there are a lot of people in general who think that they're far more informed than they really are.
 

Criptex

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Well, in politics... there are many definitions, and the definition of left is usually related with socialism and comunism, and right, democracy, republic democracy, and capitalism. But here in the US, we don't have those two sides, the government here is a democratic republic, therefore the two most important parties are also democratic parties... so the BIG difference... is if you are more liberal (democratic) or conservative (republican).
But actually, it makes no difference, either way... you are gonna be on the left side, but what about if your mindset goes out of the box? if you think that comunism is the way to go...? that is also a matter of discussion.
Edit:
You can think whatever you want, but if you think the solution is killing people, please before you post it, think twice, because that's almost a confession of premeditate genocide.
 
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ichwar

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Right, what ever your views are, you have to measure them on a "scale" or "chart", if you will. And depending on what you measure it against, you could be a lefty, a righty, or moderate.

For example, someone who is a moderate here in America, would be a righty over in china, while a moderate in Russia would be a lefty here in the U.S.
 

Criptex

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Well one thing I DON'T agree with, is the punishment for success, it is not a practical idea to take off money from the rich and not from the poor, I think if you are gonna raise taxes, do it both ways, rich and poor, because then... why would you work your whole life trying to make yourself rich, if then the government will take more taxes from you than from the people that maybe is lazy and don't want to work?
 

Parsa44

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I think i am moderate but i can get really annoyed at polititans at times.. e.g George Bush.
 

cowctcat

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the one conservative idea i absolutely and completely disagree with is banning gay marriage. You people are no better than Hitler slaughtering the jews because they were different. The Government is openly discriminating against a group of people which is the exact oposite of the ideals on which this country was formed. All men were created equal. If you think that they should be able to have a civil union and accept that tell me if it were the other way around would you accept not being able to marry the one you love because other people think that it isn't right. Furthermore you can all cut this learning about it in school will harm our children crap. Your children are not yours to completely control and they are free to do with there lives as they please. It is impossible for them to have an open view if they are not allowed to see all angles of the world. A lot of it to is trying to impose your religious beleifs onto others which is completely not right in every possible way.
 

hcse26

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Well I'm a moderate on politics but I do side with political parties at times.
What I mean by saying moderate is if their ideas, projects, whatever... does good for the people. Living in a country that has the masses as the majority if the population, It's darn sure that they'll choose the politician if they think they'll be benefited.






[....even though politicians will always be politicians and they say crap that people like LoL]
 

mesenberg

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I consider myself in the middle right now because I havent had enough time to decide who I think is right yet. I have problems with both sides. There are too many radicals that discredit what might have otherwise been good causes. My parents are far right wingers though and as I am not yet graduated I feel I dont need to pick sides yet.
 

mugwort2

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I am a liberal because I believe in equal rights, health care reform, Gays marrying, equality for women and men, everyone
 

truthguild

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i'm none of the above - i'm a libertarian based on the american system. the red dot is my result on a political test:
polparty.png
 

fractalfeline

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This sure is a hot topic eh? 4 pages already!

Eh, I suppose I'm in the middle, maybe left of middle a bit. I agree with things on one side and agree with things on the other side as well.

1) Pro-Death Penalty. Hey, I sure as heck don't want to be supporting serial killers with my taxes. Really? 20 years in the penal system? What does that actually accomplish anyhow? If you asked me, add pedophiles and serial rapists to the list of criminals that can receive the death penalty and I'd be a happy camper.

2) Pro-Abortion. Let's face it, there's a population problem in the world. The last thing we need is more unwanted people in this world eh? There's plenty of children in the world that need good homes and don't have them (Africa, India, Brazil) and we're going to add more children? And a child that isn't wanted is not going to get the love they need to develop into a good, well-adjusted member of society. And yes, a child can tell if you resent them! The last thing we need is to breed more a-holes. It's a matter of cutting your losses a little. Granted, I'm also against lots of promiscuity and resorting to abortion as a first means of contraception. People gotta take responsibility for their loins a little.

3) Pro-Green. Granted, some of this climate change stuff is over the top, I don't think the world will end due to tsunamis, hurricanes, the ice caps melting, etc. etc. etc. (Really? Come on now.) But I think it is about time we started cutting back on energy consumption, pollution, the works. I would love it if recycling bins and programs were expanded because it's inconvenient right now. I especially like the idea of alternate fuels because we need to cut back on foreign oil just for the sake of our economy and foreign policy. We really need to find practical solutions to global health problems that don't interfere too much with industry, because the factories will keep producing regardless of how many hippies tie themselves to trees. And yeah, replanting trees is a good thing, let's do that. (Read, I'm not against cutting them, just replace them yo?)

4) Anti-PETA. Hot potatoes, are they nutty eh? I like the idea of animal rights but sheesh. I'm also anti-vegetarianism, sorry folks, it's silly. Protein is a vital part of the human diet, deal with it.

5) Pro-Immigration Laws. I understand that poverty exists in other countries, but all of them coming here is not the solution. Other countries need better labor laws. Progressivism, it's a good thing. Unionize, people! Yeah, I'm from a frontier state, and illegals are a problem here. I do feel sorry for them, after all, it's not their fault they're poor and desperate and have mouths to feed, but it's a matter of how many there are, and the conditions they face when they get here, and which jobs they're taking and from whom. They come here, live many to a room, work for jack-squat wages, doing menial labor, long hours, terrible work conditions (poor those guys working construction in the middle of the day in June/July/August), always running from the Law, can't advance in life, and generally looked down upon by most of everyone. Any other legal person here doing the same position would get shorter hours, higher wages, and be able to say "Really, you want me and my coworkers to work on asphalt in 104 degree weather? Screw that!" The very desperation of illegals lowers the labor standard in this country, and they don't have rights to stand up for (without risking deportation). It might as well be slave labor. And it's really sad and very crappy in general that a lot of the youth turn to crime to make the money necessary to live. I really dislike the crime rates going up due to desperate people needing to take desperate measures. I think the US needs to pressure other countries to advance their civil rights and labor laws so that these situations don't arise in the first place! On a similar note:

6) Anti-NAFTA. Good grief. Where are all our jobs going? Oh that's right, over the border, where they can pay the workers peanuts to produce the same crap and then sell it in Wal-Mart. And we Americans let it happen! And we wonder what the hell happened to our economy, letting other countries (India, China, Mexico, Guatemala, etc.) out-produce us. Oh wait, they can out-produce us because they don't have proper labor laws. They don't have civil rights. Their governments can whip them and no one speaks up about it. Well darn, I guess we can't compete anymore. Too bad our very own corporations are too short-sighted and traitorous. Who is gonna buy that crap that you produce so cheaply if NO ONE HAS A JOB TO AFFORD IT.

7) Anti-bailout. Well, I like Ford, they're ok, but Chrysler and GM can die for all I care. No use throwing good money after bad. I have a Ford car, it's nice, runs well, no problems, 5 years old, good gas mileage. But everyone I know who's ever had a Chrysler or GM car has nothing but complaints about what kind of clunkers they are. Terrible cars, can't compete, let em burn.

8) Anti-Iraq War. Seriously, anything useful come out of that? "We liberated them." That's useful? How much money did we throw at that cause so that we can feel good about our self-righteousness?

9) I dunno how to phrase this but... I like the idea of more taxation on the rich and less on the poor. The poor don't have the means to support the country as much as the rich. And yeah, if you're born with a silver spoon in your mouth, that hardly counts as "hard work." And if you do nothing but exploit people, lie, rip people off, and other common business tactics to make your "hard earned" cash... that shouldn't be rewarded. BUT...

10) Anti-Welfare. It's good in concept but it needs way more regulation. I don't like supporting drunken hobos who can't get their behinds off the floor and get a productive job. I don't like supporting crack-mothers who can't give a flying rat's derierre how much their children suffer because they "need a fix." People with legitimate psychological problems need professional help, but enabling them to continue a life of poverty via tax dollars? Put the tax dollars into the psych hospitals so they might actually be able to be productive members of society. Some people have hard luck, get laid off, really are looking for a job, but are having trouble, don't have a lot of good skills, badly educated, few opportunities in life to advance... it happens. But the ones that are just lazy shouldn't be allowed to sponge off of the government.

11) Neutral-Gay Marriage. I just don't care about this issue. Sorry. If gay people want to get married, and the government lets them, I might just care enough to shrug about it. If they have to settle for (gasp) just a civil union, then I guess they'll just have to. Meanwhile, I'll still think it's a matter of semantics. If civil unions are governed by the same laws as marriages, with the same tax laws, the same separation laws (like divorce), etc. then who cares what it's called? (And granted, I don't know a whole lot about this issue because em, I don't care enough to gather info about it)

12) Pro Civil Rights... but Anti Civil Rights Exploitation. It's been 40 years. It will take time for racist and sexist ideas to die (literally, as the prejudiced ones die off), but in the meantime, I'd like it if a true meritocracy was set up such that if I'm a white guy (I'm not btw) and I have the same qualifications as a black woman, I should have equal consideration. And vice versa. I dislike the fact that if I were a white guy, and a black woman with lesser qualifications applied for the same job, she'd get it because she's got protected sex and skin color. It should have no bearing on job selection, school selection, etc. Period. (As a hispanic female, I'd feel really insulted if I found out I was hired just because I was a minority and there was a minority quota to fill! Because as a minority, I can't be expected to have the same intelligence and skill, and I'm held to a lower standard? Really?)

13) Pro Educational Equity. The suburbs are getting better schooling than the inner city, and that's a real shame. If you have the money to send your kid to a private school, by all means do so, but the public school system needs revamping because some kids get the "good" school districts and others get the "bad" school districts. If you're in the bad district? Well I guess tough noodles. No equal opportunity for you. Life sucks, get used to it. (I'd like it if all children had the same educational opportunities so that we don't continue this spiral of bad district -> bad education -> bad job -> bad income -> low rent -> bad neighborhood -> less property tax -> no money for the local school -> bad district) It doesn't help that the country doesn't value education enough to pay their teachers!!!! It would really help if teachers had wages enough that they might be motivated to teach when otherwise they wouldn't care!!!

14) Pro Health Care Reform. Seriously, let's adopt the Swiss system. I'm not sure I understand the Anti Health Care Reform side of things though, if someone really thinks the current system is ok and should be kept, I'd be happy to hear it :) (And yeah, false dichotomy. I don't know how I feel about the Obama plan. Pro/Con debate here would be fun and educational.)

15) Pro Research and Development. Just cuz we cut back on health care costs doesn't mean we ought not put money into cancer, AIDS, stem cell research (yes, Pro stem cell research), the like. Science is the way forward eh? We ought to embrace it, put money into it, it's a good thing, and gives the country an edge in the global market.

Welp enough soap-boxing:rant2:I love that graphic :) As my dad says, opinions are like a-holes, everybody's got one :) Just my two cents.
 

John Klyne

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I have no clue what a conservative is, or a liberal person, or statist or libertarian....

Having said that, and looking at the diagram above...FORGET THE ECONOMY, if your smart you should be able to live with whatever life throws at you financially. So No I am NOT A "Right." Sure I care a bit about others, but dammit, figure out your own things! WORK OUT YOUR OWN PROBLEMS! Don't include me in your stupid politics.

Now, on a personal issues score...I would rather look out for my own a$$ than anyone elses. EVOLUTION, become stronger or DIE!!! Become more Supperior or become a SLAVE! !!! I do not care about others, I care about myself first, then, only when I am where I want to be, do I lend a hand to those I know for a fact can do better then their current situation, no matte what it may be.

Big Government??? A Statist?? Forget it! Unless I am at the top, running the show, I DO NOT WANT IT! I DO NOT LIKE IT! Think about the DMV...they don't give a squat about the service they offer...you can stand there 4 hours straight until you get your 6 DIGIT NUMBER called! The government, is a bunch of bull, if you can account for all the times the government has interfered in the country...you will find, most of the time, they think they are helping people...BUT THEY ARE NOT!!! Big Government?? FORGET IT, I AM NOT A STATIST!

What is a Libertarian????
I have heard of it, never asked what it is...but since it is the only thing left...I am an independent/self dependent person, I think that is what I am. I do things on my own, like running things the way I like to run them, and make money whenever I want, with no limitations on how I can make it...something illegal in one country is not illegal in another....once again the government is messing with what my full potential is in life!

I am a libertarian, a full 100% libertarian...

Note: I have no clue what these things mean, nor do I care, but if you feel you can educate me, please go right ahead, I don't need to call myself anything, but "whatever I choose to call myself."

EDIT: truthguild ...... if it was not for your diagram I would not be able to base my opinion, thankyou for your help, I really appreciate it. plus rep!
Edit:
I replied in bold. :)

2) Pro-Abortion. Granted, I'm also against lots of promiscuity and resorting to abortion as a first means of contraception. People gotta take responsibility for their loins a little. I feel abortion is "bad" but I think it is necessary to have it...reasons I cannot discuss...takes too long...but yea I am pro...for the reasons stated in original quote.

3) Pro-Green. Granted, some of this climate change stuff is over the top, I don't think the world will end due to tsunamis, hurricanes, the ice caps melting, etc. etc. etc. (Really? Come on now.) ...Must agree there...I'm thinking it will end due to a zombie infestation or something lol :) but now...if the human race does cease to exist, it will be because we created the problem! and only choose to "cure" the symtoms...like scientists ( I have a hatred for parts of the medical industry and the food/drug admin.)

4) Anti-PETA. Hot potatoes, are they nutty eh? I like the idea of animal rights but sheesh. I'm also anti-vegetarianism, sorry folks, it's silly. Protein is a vital part of the human diet, deal with it. I beleive a cow and a chicken were pot on this world, for me to feast on! and well...yea I am anti-peta too!

5) Pro-Immigration Laws. I understand that poverty exists in other countries, but all of them coming here is not the solution. I love this part of your post...forget the rest of the world...let them work their own problems, and stop having them come to us dam!

6) Anti-NAFTA. Good grief. Where are all our jobs going? Oh that's right, over the border, where they can pay the workers peanuts to produce the same crap and then sell it in Wal-Mart. And we Americans let it happen! And we wonder what the hell happened to our economy, letting other countries (India, China, Mexico, Guatemala, etc.) out-produce us. Oh wait, they can out-produce us because they don't have proper labor laws. They don't have civil rights. Their governments can whip them and no one speaks up about it. Well darn, I guess we can't compete anymore. Too bad our very own corporations are too short-sighted and traitorous. Who is gonna buy that crap that you produce so cheaply if NO ONE HAS A JOB TO AFFORD IT. Love this part as well...but you seem like an economist...BUT you falter at your understandings... it is called creative destruction...the destruction of one business in order to benefit in the future...that is what is happening...Americans give away jobs, Americans DO NOT WANT TO DO... did you know that, if everyone stoped being a janiter, the wages would increase...and increase...and thus, one day, WHO KNOWS a doctor may be making 200k a year and a janitar is making 100k when before...they were only making half... I have to say I don't like inflation and thus I am ANTI-Nafta

7) Anti-bailout. Well, I like Ford, they're ok, but Chrysler and GM can die for all I care. But everyone I know who's ever had a Chrysler or GM car has nothing but complaints about what kind of clunkers they are. Terrible cars, can't compete, let em burn.I agree, with anti-bailout...they got themselves in this mess...let them get out of it on their own!

8) Anti-Iraq War. Seriously, anything useful come out of that? "We liberated them." That's useful? How much money did we throw at that cause so that we can feel good about our self-righteousness?America's polititions are a bunch of ****, and start wars because they make money...who profits from wars...the war industry...(who is the biggest funder for polititions????? THE WAR INDUSTRY!!) DAM WAR, and DAM those are like seeing people die...freckin leave their hold land and they will STOP! (...well osama bin ladin said that is all he wanted done...instead we are sending more troops there to die...when we would not need to send them there, if we got them the hell out of there first...any country in danger in the arabian peninsula...FORGET THEM, I don't give a s$#t about them!

9) I dunno how to phrase this but... I like the idea of more taxation on the rich and less on the poor. The poor don't have the means to support the country as much as the rich. And yeah, if you're born with a silver spoon in your mouth, that hardly counts as "hard work." And if you do nothing but exploit people, lie, rip people off, and other common business tactics to make your "hard earned" cash... that shouldn't be rewarded. BUT...can't say it any other/better way.

10) Anti-Welfare. It's good in concept but it needs way more regulation. I don't like supporting drunken hobos who can't get their behinds off the floor and get a productive job. I don't like supporting crack-mothers who can't give a flying rat's derierre how much their children suffer because they "need a fix." People with legitimate psychological problems need professional help, but enabling them to continue a life of poverty via tax dollars? Put the tax dollars into the psych hospitals so they might actually be able to be productive members of society. Some people have hard luck, get laid off, really are looking for a job, but are having trouble, don't have a lot of good skills, badly educated, few opportunities in life to advance... it happens. But the ones that are just lazy shouldn't be allowed to sponge off of the government. Forget welfare, if they are smart, and truly care about themselves than they will work something out, to live life the way they want.

11) Neutral-Gay Marriage. Let people do what they wish, here is the gov intruding on our daily lives again!

14) Pro Health Care Reform...I AM ANTI HEALTH CARE REFORM...forget other people...if they truly cared about themselves they would have taken better care of their diet/did what you are supposed to do, to never get sick! Here is a person that only gets a cold, EVERY YEAR, since I was born!...YEA THAT PERSON IS ME...forget HEALTHCARE! BUT, I would like to see, education improved, so that people know how to stay healthy!

15) Pro Research and Development. Just cuz we cut back on health care costs doesn't mean we ought not put money into cancer, AIDS, stem cell research (yes, Pro stem cell research), the like. Science is the way forward eh? We ought to embrace it, put money into it, it's a good thing, and gives the country an edge in the global market. Forget research development! ONE dam scientist is taking at least 1k a day! for doing ****! The FDA is not working on the cause...they are working on the dam symtom! forget it, I have not, and I NEVER WILL donate to such researching organizations...buy yourself a book...and read why! ...I can give you a list if you like!....

1. Kevin Trudeau's Natural Cures book

2. written by Hulda Regehr Clark, Ph.D.,N.D. book name is The Cures To ALL Diseases

3. The Cure For All Cancers...Including Over 100 Case
Histories of Persons Cured
...same author as above...

DAM THE GOVERNMENT!


As my dad says, opinions are like a-holes, everybody's got one :) Just my two cents.That is a great quote...opinions are like a-holes and what I replied is just my opinion. I feel strongly about most of everything I said.
Thanks for listening.
 
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fractalfeline

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What is a Libertarian????

Some info:
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/libertarianism/

Other replies in underline :)
3) Pro-Green. Granted, some of this climate change stuff is over the top, I don't think the world will end (Really? Come on now.) ...Must agree there...I'm thinking it will end due to a zombie infestation or something lol but now...if the human race does cease to exist, it will be because we created the problem! and only choose to "cure" the symtoms...like scientists ( I have a hatred for parts of the medical industry and the food/drug admin.)
LOL re: zombie infestation! But yeah, I'm kinda in the health care industry, being a medical student, and while there are definite problems with the medical industry and food-drug admin, it's a bit unfair to lump it all into the same category. Surely you don't think it would be better to not have any health care or advancement at all?

6) Anti-NAFTA. Love this part as well...but you seem like an economist...BUT you falter at your understandings... it is called creative destruction...the destruction of one business in order to benefit in the future...that is what is happening...Americans give away jobs, Americans DO NOT WANT TO DO... did you know that, if everyone stoped being a janiter, the wages would increase...and increase...and thus, one day, WHO KNOWS a doctor may be making 200k a year and a janitar is making 100k when before...they were only making half... I have to say I don't like inflation and thus I am ANTI-Nafta
Hmm I'll have to look up creative destruction a bit, not familiar with that idea. But I would think there's plenty of people in this country that can fill in those roles, especially now with the economic downturn. People who have made mistakes in their lives or lack other opportunities for education might be suitable to take janitor roles. Think: if you were a criminal who perhaps was convicted of a violent crime (assault and battery for instance, while drunk, in a bar fight) and will probably not be able to get a decent job due to criminal background checks. What will you do? Well rather than hang around feeling sorry for yourself on a street corner, get a job, construction, janitor, farm help, and with less competition from illegals, you might just find one. Or perhaps you're mentally disabled? Or you have some psychological problem like mild schizophrenia, but you are committed to taking your meds and restarting your life? Or perhaps you're one of many who just doesn't think education is your thing, barely got a high school diploma, if that, and need a job that doesn't require an impressive resume? Or a teenager that wants spending cash? Or better yet, a young single mother that has dreams of going back to school but had to drop out for the sake of the baby? There's jobs for all levels of society, and if you're willing to bust your butt to make something of yourself, you should be able to. I, for one, am happy that there are at least some programs in place to rehabilitate people for re-release into the real world from jail and taking people off the streets. I think it's an embarrassment that there are so many homeless and unemployed in this country, frankly. And a janitor making more than a doctor? That's a bit extreme. But it would be good to have census bureau statistics and whatnot to back this up with, and good data about the real demand for these low-end jobs. (And for the record, why not let LEGAL immigrants take these jobs anyhow? I'm sure some of them at least would appreciate a chance to work their way up in the system in a LEGAL way.)

8) Anti-Iraq War. America's polititions are a bunch of ****, and start wars because they make money...who profits from wars...the war industry...(who is the biggest funder for polititions????? THE WAR INDUSTRY!!) DAM WAR, and DAM those are like seeing people die...freckin leave their hold land and they will STOP! (...well osama bin ladin said that is all he wanted done...instead we are sending more troops there to die...when we would not need to send them there, if we got them the hell out of there first...any country in danger in the arabian peninsula...FORGET THEM, I don't give a s$#t about them!
No doubt the war and weapons industry profitted from the war but are they really the biggest funder for politicians? I'm just curious, not really refutting you just wondering where you got that conclusion from (ie what are your premises?) I was under the impression (granted I'd have trouble coming up with my sources for this too!) that the oil giants were the primary backers for this hair-brained plot, and if not directly, indirectly due to our dependence on oil. And the people of the region do have legitimate beef with the US for interfering too much with their politics. Back during the Cold War, the US would supply arms to various leaders who they thought were pro-US or anti-USSR and support dictators for the sake of sticking it to the Soviets. The religious jihad is just a convenient excuse that they use to unite to take vengence on us for our un-asked for involvement and to tell us to leave them to their own devices. It's too bad that we have to keep careful control over who has control of the region in order to keep the oil flowing into our cars and industry. Seriously, let's break our dependence on foreign oil and let them all kill each other if that's what they truly want to do. I'm sure the Israelis can handle themselves (and our "care" for their peace and welfare probably has other motivations, like a convenient excuse to meddle into the affairs of the region!)

10) Anti-Welfare. Forget welfare, if they are smart, and truly care about themselves than they will work something out, to live life the way they want.
Agree to disagree?

14) Pro Health Care Reform...I AM ANTI HEALTH CARE REFORM...forget other people...if they truly cared about themselves they would have taken better care of their diet/did what you are supposed to do, to never get sick! Here is a person that only gets a cold, EVERY YEAR, since I was born!...YEA THAT PERSON IS ME...forget HEALTHCARE! BUT, I would like to see, education improved, so that people know how to stay healthy!
Yes, that's actually one of the things I'd like to see more of in the health industry: preventative medicine. More education on healthy practices and especially try to catch children at an early age to eat properly and choose fruits and veggies sometimes rather than potato chips, and go outside and play, get some sunlight (vitamin D is good for bone health) instead of sitting in front of the TV. Educate parents too: especially to set a good example! The catastrophic cost of healthcare can be reduced if more people engaged in healthy practices, and that means lower rates for all. I mean, it's both heart-breaking and a little infuriating to see a guy walk into the office, 40 years old, works a high stress job, has three children and a wife, comes home, watches TV all evening in his armchair, drinks a 6-pack of beer a day, smokes a pack cigarettes every day, eats potato chips by the bag, eats nothing but burgers and fries for his meals, and suddenly one day realizes he's PEEING BLOOD. Well hate to break it to you, but those habits have KILLED YOUR KIDNEYS and you'll have to GO ON DIALYSIS FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE unless you can get a kidney transplant (good luck on that), and if you're lucky, you might have 5 YEARS LEFT. BUT!!! I still think the health care system needs reform. Go look up the statistics on how many citizens do not have health care currently. Think about how many people are losing their jobs and won't have any way of continuing their coverage. And tell me if it's not embarrassing as a country.
BTW do you have a condition or something? Or you just get colds?

15) Pro Research and Development. Forget research development! ONE dam scientist is taking at least 1k a day! for doing ****! The FDA is not working on the cause...they are working on the dam symtom! forget it, I have not, and I NEVER WILL donate to such researching organizations...buy yourself a book...and read why! ...I can give you a list if you like!....
Spare me your list, tyvm. So one scientist making 1k a day? Really? Where? Get me into contact with that employer. When I graduated from college, with a biology degree, from a top school, and with Honors, and I couldn't find a job except at the frikkin dollar store. When I finally did get a "good" job, I was getting less than $10/hour and working alongside high schoolers and foreigners as a "chemist". So I was curious how much researchers DO make. Here's some links:

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/04/14/aaup
I show this because academic research is probably the most legit research out there, I find it hard to trust anything that is backed up by the pharmaceutical industry.

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Industry=Pharmaceutical_Research/Salary
A nice overview of other types of biotech type researchers and their salaries.

Feel free to do your own research too, that's just me googling for answers. As far as real research goes, and real advances in science, and what they're really up to these days, try PubMed!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
Go type in "cancer" into the search engine and find a review article, there's a lot of free-to-view full-text articles publicly available.
But I'm biased. It's my industry after all.

Anywho, good discussion though :) It's good to have differing opinions because it forces you to re-evaluate your way of thinking and justify your reasons for thinking that way.
 

jtwhite

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I just took a political test which says I'm moderate. It explained each part very well and I do agree with most of the beliefs of moderate. :)

Is this similar to Independent?
 

John Klyne

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I always reply in bold. : )

LOL re: zombie infestation! But yeah, I'm kinda in the health care industry, being a medical student, and while there are definite problems with the medical industry and food-drug admin, it's a bit unfair to lump it all into the same category. Surely you don't think it would be better to not have any health care or advancement at all?Yea I was sarcastic with the zombie infestation thing :)

It would be worse, to not have any health care or advancement. Let me say this, I do not really care about doctors, in this subject, they do what they think is right, they are trying to help people, I like people who care about others.


You are in the medical industry, let me say this next. I wanted to become a doctor. I love watching House on tv, or ER, or anything else like that. I don't get sick, I never had to get a shot, to go to school, and if I did, I have had my documents "faked." I do not get sick, I do not have a medical condition, at least not a condition that is know to man yet. I eat healthy, go to sleep before, the 10PM HB (health barrier...point in which a persons body, literally undergoes a "system restore" which occurs every 10 PM to 5:30 AM. System refreshes, like a computer and goes about doing as it would usually do every day. HB does NOT exist, that is just what I call it, but I can't find the book I found this information on. I do not know how much of a "nut" you think I am, but I respect a persons opinion. Here is a quote...you can remember from now on ...."Today's "nut" is tomorrows tree who held its ground." Something has occured to me in the past, which made me want to be doctor, then something else occured, I learned something, I learned a number of things, which have made me hate those who lead the medical industry.

6) Anti-NAFTA.
(And for the record, why not let LEGAL immigrants take these jobs anyhow? I'm sure some of them at least would appreciate a chance to work their way up in the system in a LEGAL way.) Legal immigrants, cost more. If you think about it economically...if legal immigrants have the jobs people have more money...the more money people have...the more things are going to cost. :) So it is basically the same, at least that is how I think of it.

10) Anti-Welfare.
Agree to disagree? I agree, with being anti-welfare.

14) Pro Health Care Reform..
Yes, that's actually one of the things I'd like to see more of in the health industry: preventative medicine. If you think medication will help, that is where you are being misled. Medication made by mankind is not medication, but a mere repellent for mosquitoes...you put it on, they will leave, when it wares off...they will come! Well medicine works the same way. The way to a true, healthy/"repaired" person is not through medicine, but some of what you are writing right after this bold print... More education on healthy practices and especially try to catch children at an early age to eat properly and choose fruits and veggies sometimes rather than potato chips, and go outside and play, get some sunlight (vitamin D is good for bone health) instead of sitting in front of the TV. Educate parents too: especially to set a good example! ........
BTW do you have a condition or something? Or you just get colds?
No condition, never gotten sick, unless you call a cold a sickness. I have never gotten any form of a shot either, no hepatitis shot for school or whatever else the medical industry has created....no shots at all. I never took a Tylenol, or aspirin people these days take them, like a baby takes milk, being breastfed. They only work on the symptom. That pisses me off A LOT!

Did you know, that if someone ( a scientist) created the "pill" to cure cancer before another scientist, that scientist would rather not have had the world find the cure ever...why (if it makes sense to you)...because by creating the "pill" they get ....lets say fame/money.

To me, I hope no person, finds the "pill" form to the cure for cancer as long as they would have something to gain from it, other than the fact/acknowledgment to themselves only, for having found it!

What in the world am I talking about?!?! Well, I don't think the "pill" form of cancer will EVER be found, for that...in my opinion, medicine ONLY, I WILL REPEAT< ONLY > works to stop the symptom! medicine is garbage, the "no cure" saying to AIDS IS A BLATANT LIE...you know why? because people only work on the symptoms, and do not go after the cause!

Find the f!@#ing parasite in a persons system that causes AIDs or diabetes! (WHICH THEY CAN DO/HAVE DONE) ...and FIND A WAY TO KILL IT/STOP IT FROM SPREADING...

WHICH THEY ARE NOT EVEN TRYING TO DO! That is right, they are working on a "pill" to cure this garbage...who in the world can kill a worm or parasite with a stupid f!@#ing pill!

I hate the FDA, and I hate those who regulate the medication/treatments allowed in any city/state/country! You know what I hate most? I hate having a scientist talking to me about how wrong I am, when someone else in the world, has found f!@#ing proof that I AM RIGHT.

15) Pro Research and Development.
Spare me your list, You seem like a smart intelligent person. Hitler did not like intellectuals, because they were smarter than him, I like intellectuals, because they think for themselves.

What do I mean? What you learn in school, is said to be "correct"...especially that related to medicine. If you call a person fat long enough...they will beleive they are fat...well...if you tell someone 1 + 2 = 10 for long enough, they will beleive it! Well that is what the world is doing right now! People with power are saying this is right, and that is wrong...then they stuff that garbage at us and we remember it! ...

You said spare you, my list...You go to school...congrats...you are in the medical field...congrats...I have yet to finish High School...and I have yet to make less than 100$ an hour. Does this make sense?

It was not a long list, if my 15 year old neighbor can read each book on her spare time in 3 weeks...you, a "free minded thinking person" an "intellectual" could surely spare a couple days to read what I listed. It is not a long list, you know it is not. But you know why you don't want to?
 
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John Klyne

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You are soo stuck into your own beliefs...you believe something soo dearly, that anything against it, is as if it is against you. You have been taught something simultaneously and you have yet to see for yourself if what you were being taught is correct. I hate schools, teaching you what I know, is WRONG, or INCORRECT! There are view individuals in the "legal" system these high class individuals gain soo much mis-informing everyone else.

I feel sorry for people, I truly do.


You know what...I'll add another book to my list...to prove how mislead you are. it is by David Icke...the name of the book is The Biggest Secret.

I love to read, I love to think, I love to think of my own things...and I love to try such things out/research such things. I have all the time I could need, within my life span, however long that may be to find what I need.

People all around the world, are taught something, and you learn it, and devour it...only because others are learning it and devouring it. Your judgment is hindered, making you look smart around those who have the same reasoning "skills" such as yourself. But no, in the eyes of people who think for themselves, you are not as smart as you may think. (When I say "you" I mean people in ranking positions in the medical/FDA positions).


I was watching a documentary...only a couple of months ago. I had my neighbor, over my house and he heard what was going on in the documentary. Well he went to school and asked the teacher what she thought of the same documentary...the teacher said, "she did not care" about what the documentary told her.


She denied EVERYTHING that was going on in the documentary. Like some stupid people deny the holocaust every occurred. She had ALL THE PROOF right there on her tv screen, and she denied it! These people who deny the holocaust ever occurred, have the proof right in front of themselves and yet they still deny EVERYTHING! I HATE people with the bottom of my heart (as stupid it may sound) that do not think for themselves and acknowledge something, when they have, statistics, science, and EVERYTHING ELSE OUT THERE proving something is like this, and not like that.

Some people are taught to believe something too long, that anything going against it, is as if it is against them.


http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/04/14/aaup
I show this because academic research is probably the most legit research out there, I find it hard to trust anything that is backed up by the pharmaceutical industry.

A teacher with proof in front of her maybe even in person, cannot believe something. A teacher teaches others...and you know what...according to what I know, what I have experienced, what I have read, learned or researched with my own hands and free mind academic research is one of the most, wrong research out there.
With that aside....


But with the salaries, 1k a day, is an exaggeration, I have exagerated about the same topic in a different thread...and once again people bring up the same thing as you just brought up.



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
Go type in "cancer" into the search engine and find a review article, there's a lot of free-to-view full-text articles publicly available. who makes such public knowledge, public? Ah yes, the people who gain A LOT by mis informing people...but I will not argue about this point of yours.


But I'm biased. It's my industry after all. Anywho, good discussion though It's good to have differing opinions because it forces you to re-evaluate your way of thinking and justify your reasons for thinking that way.

I am biased as well. I hate the medical industry...they do not do what I would like to see them doing...looking for a "true" cure to something they say they have a cure to. They work on symptoms, not the causes and the effects.

I bought medical books...and I did not like what they were teaching...it is true...I then bought books, that were not regulated...books that were un-hindered by the government, the FDA or any other grand organization who makes millions of dollars from teaching such WRONG things....

Please tell me what you think, I would hate for you to stop arguing with me...I recommend you read those books I said...3 in the last post...plus one in this post is 4 books....4 books and 7 days each... tell me what you think in 28 days...you know what I'll give you extra time...how does 31 days sound?

Yea I know you won't read it...but then if you really wanted to know the truth, wouldn't you be doing all you can to get the truth?

Please keep on rebutting what I say. I have firm, strong beliefs and I would love to be opposed.
 
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John Klyne

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So it is back to..."I can't think for myself" ... "I can't study it for myself" ...I can't have my own thoughts"

Did you not understand anything related to thinking for yourself in any post I made prior to this?

Unaccredited clayton college...ah yes, if the gov sees they teach what the gov does not want us to know, they can't be accredited. I like it.

Judgement by FTC...federal trade commission...she may have them in FDA...fed drug administration....well did you not read what I said about them in my prior posts....THEY MAKE MILLIONS! by teaching the WRONG THING! Un-substantiated claims???if that guy read the book he would notice that every claim she made is substantiated....

Truth guild, read it for yourself...remember you still have till the end of september to share how much you let others think for you.

Eurytrema panctriaticum...is present in cows/herbivorous mammels...well your stupid link says you can't get it from eating infected things....(what in the world!?! ...do you honestly that is correct) ...and they say you can only get it from grasshoppers...by eating them....Eurytrema panctriaticum ....is a parasite...that causes diabetes....hmmm....like I said...maybe you should read the book, and think for yourself....

5:57 ...human studies have not been completed for ...being the true cure to cancer.......why? because the DAM GOV stopped funding it when they got close to revealing what is true!

7:12 ...rabbits can only be infected by the rabbit fluke...they say that only animals can be infected by their own respective flue.....well...there is the ...flu...and swine flue...if you did not know swine flu came from pigs......so yea...obvisouly if you eat a rabbit, you can't get the rabbit fluke??????WHAT THE HELL....why can you get swine flu by eating a pig???

21:04 CANCER DOES NOT???!?! require tissue cleaning....what in the world is this link of yours saying.....did you know that cancer, is cells, not functioning properly...and just dividing over and over again.....(obviously...except to you, and the person who made the video)...if you take away the infected cells...there are no more cells to duplicate over and over again...you know what...your link is garbage...and you know what else...what the guy in the link is saying is garbage too...think about it!

Genes!!! your video says, getting cancer is genetic...are you out of your mind?!?! I mean it...if you are just tell me, and I'll leave you alone hehe.

21:26 they say genes are the only think that damage/regulate cells and their growth...once again, other sources...from actually "smart" scientists say that cancer cells, are not only regulated by stupid genes...but by the persons brain, and MANY MANY MANY other things REMOTELY related to cells in general....which "can" turn into bad cells.

A tumor cell..... 22:44 is full of toxins...we have "smart" scientists that say it is...

I quit watching the rest of your stupid link....think for yourself...tell me what I just said is not true??? Exactly...

Well do you have more garbage to throw at me...or are you going to stop replying...(which I hope you do keep on replying)...anyone else want to join in and show "how much you can't think for yourself."

Truthguild, I admire you defending your medical industry, but lets face it, you might not beleive a "lady" everyone thinks is crazy...but how about the president, who says he has a cure to AIDS???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xac8wDDjlvw&NR=1

Well come on, can't anyone come up with anything better to throw at me...

truthguild...I have been in another thread maybe months ago, regarding this topic and well, everyone stopped replying...I hope it does not happen now...
 

fractalfeline

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I fully realize I'm feeding the troll. But what's the fun of a forum if you don't engage right?

Replies in blue. <snip> means I snipped out portions in order to keep it within the maximum character count :)

I always reply in bold. : )

Yea I was sarcastic with the zombie infestation thing :)
The sarcasm was obvious. I just thought it was funny is all.
<snip>

You are in the medical industry, let me say this next. I wanted to become a doctor. I love watching House on tv, or ER, or anything else like that. I don't get sick, I never had to get a shot, to go to school, and if I did, I have had my documents "faked." I do not get sick, I do not have a medical condition, at least not a condition that is know to man yet. I eat healthy, go to sleep before, the 10PM HB..<snip>. I do not know how much of a "nut" you think I am, but I respect a persons opinion. Here is a quote...you can remember from now on ...."Today's "nut" is tomorrows tree who held its ground." Something has occured to me in the past, which made me want to be doctor, then something else occured, I learned something, I learned a number of things, which have made me hate those who lead the medical industry.
Perhaps you'll elaborate a little bit on what has happened to you to make you hate those who lead the medical industry? It doesn't help anyone else to just say that "things have occurred" because we cannot judge from your frame of reference if you don't show us where your perspective comes from. On another note, I thought you had stated that you had colds every year, and it came across as if there was something special about it. I was just wondering if you had a immunodeficiency or something that caused this or if it was just "oh I get the sniffles every winter."

6) Anti-NAFTA.
(And for the record, why not let LEGAL immigrants take these jobs anyhow? I'm sure some of them at least would appreciate a chance to work their way up in the system in a LEGAL way.) Legal immigrants, cost more. If you think about it economically...if legal immigrants have the jobs people have more money...the more money people have...the more things are going to cost. :) So it is basically the same, at least that is how I think of it.
It costs more because our value of the dollar is artificially lowered due to the cheapy prices we see at Wal-Mart. That's the essence of inflation. If I pay 1 dollar for an apple one day, and 2 dollars for a similar apple the next day, it has little to do with the value of the apple fluctuating. The apple is the same. The value of the dollar has just gone down is all. I suppose I'm just adopting a more mercantile and less foreign trade stance on economics. I'd rather this country be more self-sufficient in order to lessen our need to appease foreign powers and help keep our money flowing here instead of overseas. It's a matter of values and beliefs at this point. Is it better to have cheap prices now at the expense of less employment in the future, or more stable employment in the long run, at the expense of higher prices in the present? It's a matter of balancing our resources and population, and a little about national defense too. Of course, economics is not my training either... I wish I knew more about it.

10) Anti-Welfare.
Agree to disagree? I agree, with being anti-welfare.
I meant I disagree with doing away with it altogether. I'm anti-expansion of the system and increasing dollar flow into the welfare system. If anything, it needs downsizing and streamlining. That's what I meant.

14) Pro Health Care Reform..
Yes, that's actually one of the things I'd like to see more of in the health industry: preventative medicine. If you think medication will help, that is where you are being misled.
You misunderstood my sentence there. Preventative medicine = the art and practice of preventing illness and injury in order to limit or eliminate the need to cure illness/injury. Kinda like "Look before you leap" in order to eliminate the need to repair a broken leg.
Medication made by mankind is not medication, but a mere repellent for mosquitoes...you put it on, they will leave, when it wares off...they will come!
??? Eh... you might need to elaborate there too.
Well medicine works the same way. The way to a true, healthy/"repaired" person is not through medicine, but some of what you are writing right after this bold print... More education on healthy practices <snip>
BTW do you have a condition or something? Or you just get colds?
No condition, never gotten sick, unless you call a cold a sickness. I have never gotten any form of a shot either, no hepatitis shot for school or whatever else the medical industry has created....no shots at all.
I see you benefit from herd immunity. Funny thing I heard the other day. Apparently measles and polio are on the rise again, especially in Europe, because less parents are immunizing their children. Herd immunity doesn't work if the percentage of the herd with immunity goes down.
I never took a Tylenol, or aspirin people these days take them, like a baby takes milk, being breastfed. They only work on the symptom. That pisses me off A LOT!
Funny you mention breastfeeding. Turns out there's a lot of antibodies in breastmilk that help pass on a mother's immunity to diseases to the child. Breastfeeding is highly encouraged for any new mothers out there :)

Did you know, that if someone ( a scientist) created the "pill" to cure cancer before another scientist, that scientist would rather not have had the world find the cure ever...why (if it makes sense to you)...because by creating the "pill" they get ....lets say fame/money.
So all scientists are evil bastards that won't share the knowledge to save millions of lives just because they're greedy and want the limelight? Sure is a broad generalization there. Surely some of them will have a sense of morality and care about humanity enough to think it might be worthwhile to publish their results publicly to benefit humankind?
No, really, go check out PubMed. You want me to check out your books, you check out my sources too.
<snip>
What in the world am I talking about?!?! Well, I don't think the "pill" form of cancer will EVER be found
Wow. I hope for everyone else's sake you're wrong.
, for that...in my opinion, medicine ONLY, I WILL REPEAT< ONLY > works to stop the symptom! medicine is garbage, the "no cure" saying to AIDS IS A BLATANT LIE...you know why? because people only work on the symptoms, and do not go after the cause!

Find the f!@#ing parasite in a persons system that causes AIDs or diabetes! (WHICH THEY CAN DO/HAVE DONE) ...and FIND A WAY TO KILL IT/STOP IT FROM SPREADING...

WHICH THEY ARE NOT EVEN TRYING TO DO! That is right, they are working on a "pill" to cure this garbage...who in the world can kill a worm or parasite with a stupid f!@#ing pill!
Whoa there. I see you know absolutely nothing about AIDS. Let me educate you for a minute here (feel free to disagree if you like):
HIV is a virus, specifically a retrovirus. What that means is that HIV is a little bit of RNA wrapped in a bit of protein and lipid (that's fatty-type compounds) that is able, upon infection, to create a DNA copy of itself and insert its DNA into your cell's DNA. The trouble with HIV is that your body has a hard time differentiating between its own DNA and the viral DNA once it has been inserted. Your cells go on believing there's nothing wrong and multiply like normal, until one day the virus decides to come out and actively take over the cells with the viral DNA and create more viruses. Repeat ad nauseum, your own immune system can do little to stop it, though it does try. It doesn't help that there's a protein on the virus that hooks onto the CD4 marker on your T cells (that is, one of the cells of your immune system) so that it can preferentially infect your T cells. ie your CD4 cells die in large quantities, making it hard for your body to fight other infections. When CD4 cell counts get too low, you develop the AIDS complex, which essentially means your immune system is too weak to fight most little things that come along. As it is now, yes, most drugs are aimed at limiting the spread of viral DNA but cannot get rid of the viral DNA that is still stuck in a person's DNA. Tricky business, that: trying to detect the viral DNA and preferentially cut it out of a person's living cells in vivo without killing the cell, cutting the wrong thing, etc. If they can figure that out, HIV would be cured. But that's getting into the level of gene therapy, and we'll see how long it takes before that kind of technology can be developed.

Continued in the next post.
 
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