Birth of Sociology

adamparkzer

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John Klyne

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Congrats on memorizing that... : )

But...

Who are you?
Where does the world come from?
Course with philosophy handle with care?
Is there a basic substance everything is made of?
Can water turn into wine?
How can earth and water produce a live frog?
Why is the lego the most ingenious toy in the world?
Do you believe in fate?
Is sickness the punishment of the gods?
What forces govern the course of history?
Is there such thing as natural modesty?
Wisest is he or she who knows what he or she does not know...
True insight comes from within...
He who knows what is right will do right...
How can the baker on "think about it street" bake 50 IDENTICAL COOKIES?
Why is every horse the same?
Does man have an immortal soul?
Do you think men and women are equal?

Now, all those things are on my lesson plan.
Tell me, do you remotely have a clue who your parents, brothers and sisters, uncles and aunts, grandparents or wrinkle parents are, and then do you know why...I think you have enough questions on your hands...

What is Sociology...(or is it like psychology... if so heck if you need help with either psychology, physiology, or philosophy I'm RIGHT HERE...don't hesitate to ask for help : )
Edit:
Um don't answer the above questions...I made a thread for that on off-topic...but then...

I looked over your work...

Did you know Socrates was probably the ugliest person to exist? And above that, one of the smartest people of all time, maybe even smarter than einstein?

Plato, was Socrates' student, very influential, right next to Aristodil and democritus. Mind my spelling : )
Edit:
Nice work on that "birth, it outlines some key things everyone should look over and think about.
 
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jtwhite

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You're studying about sociology in psychology?

Or are you taking a sociology class too?

It's both, smashed into one class.

Congrats on memorizing that... : )

But...

Who are you?
Where does the world come from?
Course with philosophy handle with care?
Is there a basic substance everything is made of?
Can water turn into wine?
How can earth and water produce a live frog?
Why is the lego the most ingenious toy in the world?
Do you believe in fate?
Is sickness the punishment of the gods?
What forces govern the course of history?
Is there such thing as natural modesty?
Wisest is he or she who knows what he or she does not know...
True insight comes from within...
He who knows what is right will do right...
How can the baker on "think about it street" bake 50 IDENTICAL COOKIES?
Why is every horse the same?
Does man have an immortal soul?
Do you think men and women are equal?

Now, all those things are on my lesson plan.
Tell me, do you remotely have a clue who your parents, brothers and sisters, uncles and aunts, grandparents or wrinkle parents are, and then do you know why...I think you have enough questions on your hands...

What is Sociology...(or is it like psychology... if so heck if you need help with either psychology, physiology, or philosophy I'm RIGHT HERE...don't hesitate to ask for help : )
Edit:
Um don't answer the above questions...I made a thread for that on off-topic...but then...

I looked over your work...

Did you know Socrates was probably the ugliest person to exist? And above that, one of the smartest people of all time, maybe even smarter than einstein?

Plato, was Socrates' student, very influential, right next to Aristodil and democritus. Mind my spelling : )
Edit:
Nice work on that "birth, it outlines some key things everyone should look over and think about.

Was that just a random post? lol
 

jtwhite

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Most of his questions can't be studied. They're purely philosophy and opinion?
Edit:
Most of his questions can't be answered. They're purely philosophy, opinion, or perception.
 
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John Klyne

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Who are you?

What do you want?

Banana points for anyone who gets that.

Tell me, did you read my new thread created yesterday regarding questions you all can't answer? : )


-------

There are a group of people who originated from a town called Boonton, in NJ, USA. They call themselves Dunist's or followers of Dunism. This is their philosophy, but only portrayed, so you can think of the rest or how it really was...

Lets say you don't know them ... You walk up to one of the followers of Dunism, and they will always ask "Who are you" you will reply, and they will ask "What do you want" you will say what you want, they will reply, "go get it" and you will walk away.

another example....you were asked earlier to give a member of Dunism something...(lets say the dunist was your teacher)...

You walk up to your teacher, the teacher will say, "What do you want" you will say "nothing" the teacher will reply, "well go away"...you walk up to the teacher next time, and the teacher says "what do you want" you reply, "I wanted to hand in my homework" the teacher will reply "Get on with it."

Another example...you walk up...the person says "what do you want" and you will reply then the person will say "go away."

That my friend is the birth of ?? Exactly, it was the birth of Sociology, and pyschology. You are thinking that is garbage...especially since you just posted hundreds of other things a you were taught in school...

Well tell me this then...How can a person possibly own a way of thinking, how can a person even comprehend what it means to say one way of thinking is word x not word y. Tell me if one idea is philosophy and another idea is not philosophy...tell me 2 + 2=3, then tell me, if that is not philosophy.

Philosophy is the thought of something, brought upon thinking about something for yourself, using your own un-hindered reason to say 2 +2=3.

Walk up to a philosophy teacher and tell them you will act philosophical for one day. Then when they say OK?? in a confused way, ask them if 2+2=3 if they it does not, they do not know the very BASIC meaning of philosophy, tell them that. Then add that they do not deserve to teach philosophy because they alone have NO IDEA how to be philosophical.

A thing, cannot be taught, only seen and touched, and smelled. An idea...(philosophy) cannot be taught, because philosophy is "thought" of a "thing". With philosophy, you can say the earth is not round and that the sun is a bunch of gold, just waited to be found. So...if your sociology teacher really taught you anything related to philosophy, tell him how what they teach is wrong, and is not philosophy because philosophy is only what people on their own think.

Say hello to one of my days in High School.
Edit:
It's both, smashed into one class.



Was that just a random post? lol
No that was not random lol?
Edit:
Maybe he's implying that you need to study more. :p

Maybe, to some extent...

What I am implying is that philosophy cannot be taught...you can read one of the above paragraphs I posted.
 
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fractalfeline

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Tell me, did you read my new thread created yesterday regarding questions you all can't answer? : )

I did actually. I figured if the point is to post questions that can't be answered, then why answer them?

There are a group of people who originated from a town called Boonton, in NJ, USA. They call themselves Dunist's or followers of Dunism. This is their philosophy, but only portrayed, so you can think of the rest or how it really was...

Lets say you don't know them ... You walk up to one of the followers of Dunism, and they will always ask "Who are you" you will reply, and they will ask "What do you want" you will say what you want, they will reply, "go get it" and you will walk away.

another example....you were asked earlier to give a member of Dunism something...(lets say the dunist was your teacher)...

You walk up to your teacher, the teacher will say, "What do you want" you will say "nothing" the teacher will reply, "well go away"...you walk up to the teacher next time, and the teacher says "what do you want" you reply, "I wanted to hand in my homework" the teacher will reply "Get on with it."

Another example...you walk up...the person says "what do you want" and you will reply then the person will say "go away."
That's so cute! It wasn't what I was looking for... but you get points anyway :) Would you happen to know where I can find more info about them? I tried Googling and couldn't find anything.
 

John Klyne

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Those questions are philosophical, and can't be answered seriously without writing chapters and chapters for every 2 or 3 questions. That is how I know no one will ever get the correct answer on these forums.

Not sure how much you like reading, but there is a book called Sophie's World, a novel about The History Of Philosophy. Jostein Gaarder was the writer. It was an international bestseller, and I would say, the best philosophical book to read for anyone that does not know where to start.

---
As for Dunist's a group of students in this town, become a Dunist, every year because a Social Studies teacher created the Dunist Thought. It was even named after him. These people learn to think differently, compared to everyone else. They don't want bu!!shi,$ if you need to say to give them something, you do it, and just leave, they don't have time to say thankyou or to talk about anything related to conventional teachings, or ideas school's put into a persons mind. I cannot fully understand them, but truth be it, they want nothing to do with long procedures or formal conversations, they are "lazy" or people who want things done or said, right to the point. They think it spares time for things far more important. I might just have to agree with that.

What if everyone went around saying what they thought, and doing as they please, with no one to say "Why!"....example of what occurred a couple of years ago...1 new student went to that school, had Mr.Dun in school, and Mr.Dun as usual said, he loves things right to the point. Well this kid thought farther, he thought, a people should just say what they mean, and get what they want, if they ask for it, no shame no game. That was the thing, this person was not an average Joe, he was a person not afraid of what others though.

This non-average Joe, loved philosophy, and changed the way people thought in that school. He said, if a guys likes a guy, forget all the, "meet them first"..."talk to them" and "go out with them part" ....he thought it should be more of a, "meet the person, and Literally" ask them type of thing. I can still remember when he came to the highschool as a freshman, he was probably one of the most viewed people in the halls...dressing as he pleased, and stopping by EVERY hot chick he saw. Making an introduction, and minutes later holding hands with the girl, and even kissing or making out with her. He does 2 things, he acts like a PUA or he merely asks if they want to hold hands, while taking her hand...or if she wants a kiss while he is already headed for it...there were times he did get rejected and he merely walked right out of the reach of one girl, behind to another...and started all over again.

That guy was a true Dunist, a person who does things right to the point, and then walks away. He did, get what he wanted, and he always walked away. If a chick said "oh he is going to pick up you up" to a chick he was doing it to, he would say just go away, we don't want you here or something like that, he did not waste time, and did not care what others said.

Dunists are not a big group of people, they are not even documented, they are just a group of people that are "created' after having been taught by this one teacher in that community.
 
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Sharky

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Those questions are philosophical, and can't be answered seriously without writing chapters and chapters for every 2 or 3 questions. That is how I know no one will ever get the correct answer on these forums.

And that is where you're expectations are flawed. You're expecting there to be a 'correct answer' and that all the responses will be serious. I thought the whole point of psychology/sociology/etc was that there is no 'correct answer', and that 2+2=4 only because previous conditioning of the value of numbers has taught this? It's only through teaching that we 'know' what 1, 2, 3, etc is worth, and how to manipulate these numbers in the first place. Sure, you may have 4 fingers, but what is 4?

Plus, there aren't many who will write chapters and chapters for every two or three questions on internet forums. It's a bad habit and took a while to stop. As are smileys and emoticons.

On a slight tangent, there really isn't much point in spending a lot of time writing very long posts, because the majority of people won't read it, and of those that do, only a small portion of the lengthy post will actually be remembered for the rebuttal/response/whatever. Best to just write the small portion!
 
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ah-blabla

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Those questions are philosophical, and can't be answered seriously without writing chapters and chapters for every 2 or 3 questions. That is how I know no one will ever get the correct answer on these forums.
There are no "correct" answers to philosophical questions, so no one will ever be able to get a "correct" answer anyway. You can simply get better developed answers.
As for Dunist's a group of students in this town, become a Dunist, every year because a Social Studies teacher created the Dunist Thought. It was even named after him. These people learn to think differently, compared to everyone else. They don't want bu!!shi,$ if you need to say to give them something, you do it, and just leave, they don't have time to say thankyou or to talk about anything related to conventional teachings, or ideas school's put into a persons mind. I cannot fully understand them, but truth be it, they want nothing to do with long procedures or formal conversations, they are "lazy" or people who want things done or said, right to the point. They think it spares time for things far more important. I might just have to agree with that.
I partly agree with that. A lot of human interaction is pointless formalities, or as Douglas Adams says we have a "habit of continually stating and repeating the very very obvious". They do take it a bit too far though I would say.

This non-average Joe, loved philosophy, and changed the way people thought in that school. He said, if a guys likes a guy, forget all the, "meet them first"..."talk to them" and "go out with them part" ....he thought it should be more of a, "meet the person, and Literally" ask them type of thing. I can still remember when he came to the highschool as a freshman, he was probably one of the most viewed people in the halls...dressing as he pleased, and stopping by EVERY hot chick he saw. Making an introduction, and minutes later holding hands with the girl, and even kissing or making out with her. He does 2 things, he acts like a PUA or he merely asks if they want to hold hands, while taking her hand...or if she wants a kiss while he is already headed for it...there were times he did get rejected and he merely walked right out of the reach of one girl, behind to another...and started all over again.
Now that's just a guy who isn't interested in the person, and just interested in women as objects. It's a bit of a one sided view since many are more interested in the person, in getting to know people. Then again, that he thinks this is a consequence of his Dunist views where he would avoid what he sees as pointless conversation.

Oh, just noticed sharky wrote a post while I was writing this. Seems we thought the same thing about philosophically "correct" answers.

Oh and regarding four: one way to describe four is as what you have when you have nothing, and then you add a single item (single being that item, alone, with nothing else). You now have one. If you add another single item to the one item you have, you have two. This is what two is, and so on.This method probably does have its flaws though, since "single" isn't particularly well defined, and could probably be demolished by a good philosopher.
 
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Sharky

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Actually, no. You have multiple single items that we would describe as two. What is 'two'? Two lots of one? Well, what is one?

If you teach a child that two and one are reversed, the child would have no problems doubling two to get one. So one multiplied by one could equal four.
 

kalanac

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Oh dear, I think I sense a lot of needlessly cryptic philosophising. The arguments made such as 2+2=5 (for large values of 2) are Sophistry.

In my opinion (which when talking about philosophy is the only one I can really have) Philosophy is the art of asking better questions. To highlight my point:

Two men encounter a block. One is a scientist the other a philosopher. The scientist takes out a tape measure, measures the height, width and length of the block. After noting the colour the weight and the texture the scientist feels happy he knows all about the block. The philosopher then asks, "What is it made of". The scientist finds out and once again claims to know all about the block. The philosopher then asks "Why is it made of that". The process continues until all possible physical attributes have been catalogued. The scientist finally triumphantly says "I know all about this block, all that has happened to it and all it has done. I know it's origin and purpose." The philosopher then asks "Do we see the same block?"

Philosophy shouldn't be used to disprove existing understanding, but rather push the boundary. Mathematical facts will always remain mathematical facts, so 2 + 2 will always be 4. Facts can only ever be mathematical (at least as far as I can tell).

As to being unable to teach or learn philosophy that's only really half true. Techniques and methods can be applied and previous examples can be studied in the same way as art. An artist doesn't need to be shown all these techniques, some are just naturally gifted, others benefit from guidance.

All that aside, I thought the original topic was sociology, that's a different kettle of fish all together.

EDIT:

If you teach a child that two and one are reversed, the child would have no problems doubling two to get one. So one multiplied by one could equal four.

By this logic you could multiply george by a house and get an elephant.

If I have two apples I imply I have two discreet objects which are called apples. Two is both a sound and a glyph which I can use to convey the fact I have two apples to another english speaking person without having to physically demonstrate the fact that I have them in my possession. There is little point in challenging the concept of numbers, they are what they are.
 
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Sharky

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By this logic you could multiply george by a house and get an elephant.
It's sound logic. An elephant divided by a house is now called George :)

First thing that's made me laugh all day. Oh dear.
 

fractalfeline

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On that note, one of my favorite quotes:

"Who knows if living is dying, or breathing is eating, or sleeping is a wool blanket?"
~ Aristophanes
 

John Klyne

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"Who knows if living is dying, or breathing is eating, or sleeping is a wool blanket?"
~ Aristophanes

I like that quote because...

Not sure where I read this but ...there was a group of people hundreds of years ago they used numbers, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 and 9 ... as mere symbols, every symbol had a number of representations, above that, the number 2 represented 2 fingers or 2 objects, but when they placed both objects together ...2 + 2 did not equal 4, because when placed together, 2nd number was worth 1 less than it's original...

so 2 + 2 was not 4 but instead it was 3.

The representation of the 2nd added number has always been decreased in this tribes"now a days logic". Here is another example of what they thought...

3 + 3 = 5. or 4-3=2 ...does 2+2=4 ... to this extinct group of people? NOPE...does 2 plus 2 equal 4 now, in these days...yes...

When people show mathematical fact, if speaking philosophically they must always show or tell who thought such a thing. That is the lesson I want to portray.

Hope this makes sense. : )
 

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I wonder why that group depreciated the value of the second number. Perhaps some form of standard trade arrangement?

I understand the point, but this is not so much mathematics as it is a tribal custom. Two apples will always be two apples, I can eat one and still have one. If I have two apples and someone gives me a further two I will be holding four, one will not magically vanish as a result of local custom. Perhaps if I were trading apples and the custom dictates that the original owner always keeps one then it makes sense to always interpret 2 + 2 = 3 in trade documents and such.

So as a refinement on my point 2 + 2 will always equal 4 barring some added mathematical operation or custom.

After all Descarte retracted the whole I think therefore I am idea, wrote enormous amounts about why it was wrong then replaced it with "I am thinking, therefore I am" (or at least so I'm told)
 

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It may be so, I do not know why the value was decreased, looking it up right now, have yet to find out.
 

jmcgowan

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Are we discussing philosophy, sociology, or language? I think it's getting lost in the jumble. To say that 2 could be called 1 or elephant is a question of language. For example, one plus uno really does equal 3, and so on, it's about language. If you were to look into the questions of why an abstract picture, "3", refers to a concrete set of objects, you're talking philosophy. If you looked further into why this abstract idea of numbers is important to large groups of people who live in a community, you're talking sociology. As for the questions at the beginning of this post, they're almost pointless to ask, as each person will likely have a different answer. Only if all participants agree to focus on openly discussing the answers instead of trying to convince the others that they're wrong will good discussion occur.
 
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