Do you believe in God?

[gali98]

Really? You mean the fact that there is zero evidence of a "God" or anything else overseeing our lives, being omnipresent? How can there be proof when the thing in question doesn't exist in the first place?

The real question is that other than faith, how can you prove that a "God" exists?

I did not see this before, and I wanted to make a comment on this. That was not what I said. I said there is not one bit of science that disproves him.

However Off the Wall, this person I know was there at their cousins funeral, and there cousin was dead, and he came back to life.
On the cancer, I know two people off the top of my head (that I know very well) that were diagnosed with cancer - there was no doubt in the doctor's mind. They came to church and were prayed for, and the next time they went to the doctor, all of the cancer was gone. The doctors - specialists in the area mind you - could not explain it. Many doctors have said that it could only be God.
On the Lame - yes, they could not walk. Or they had severe arthritis that was gone.
On the addictions, they were in so deep that quiting like they did (went from straight addiction to nothing in an instant) should have killed them, or at the very least severely harmed them, but they did not have anything happen to them, except that their lives were changed.

So science is supposed to magically cure cancer, make lame people less lame, remove addictions, and rise the dead? If that is what you think science is then you're mistaken.

What you are talking about are baseless stories. You claim they've all happened yet you cannot prove any of them are true. I'm sure that you think they've happened and that's all the proof you need.

No, My point was, if God does not exist, then he did not heal these people. And obviously you don't believe that science can "magically cure cancer" then whom praytell did? And you are correct, that is the only proof I need. I have seen. You could find those doctors and they would tell you. I am sure there are medical records for the person raised to life. There is a story I heard (which you obviously will believe fiction) that a man on remote island ( I can't even remember the name of it, but it was small and basically uncivilized) where a man died, and was raised back to life again. He was written a death certificate for the first time, and the man who wrote it, refused to write another one the many years later he died again.

But it's like I said. You will not believe this. There are plenty of places to find proof, but you will not accept it. If you really want proof, you can get down on your knees and pray. Pray to Jesus. And you can feel his presence.

I do not expect you to do that. I expect you to tell me that you have tried that before, and that you felt nothing.
There is no point in arguing the matter further. You wish to change my point of view, and I wish to change yours. It won't happen either way.
You like to believe that you are the sole ruler of your life. You can make all the choices you need to live a successful life. I respect that. My grandfather was the same way. Until he got lung cancer. He died of it. A couple months before he died, he told my dad and his brothers that he finally came to the point in his life where he realized that there was a higher power, and he needed it. My grandfather was always a "good" man, but when he died he was the happiest he had ever been.

I'm done now. You can disprove all I have said. That is all fine and good. I know why I am here on this earth. I have the faith to believe that I am more than just an animal that was bred to live, breed, and then die to fertilize the earth.
Kory

 

[Kayos]

However Off the Wall, this person I know was there at their cousins funeral, and there cousin was dead, and he came back to life.

Sorry for not believing this crazy story but could you product who exactly the person was, where they are from, what funeral home it occurred in, anything relating to it that could be used to back up this silly claim.

On the cancer, I know two people off the top of my head (that I know very well) that were diagnosed with cancer - there was no doubt in the doctor's mind. They came to church and were prayed for, and the next time they went to the doctor, all of the cancer was gone. The doctors - specialists in the area mind you - could not explain it. Many doctors have said that it could only be God.

If and a very skeptical if you knew of these people who did have cancer you still are only giving us half the story. We know nothing about the medical treatments they were receiving among other things.

On the Lame - yes, they could not walk. Or they had severe arthritis that was gone.

Sure. Right.

On the addictions, they were in so deep that quiting like they did (went from straight addiction to nothing in an instant) should have killed them, or at the very least severely harmed them, but they did not have anything happen to them, except that their lives were changed.

This one is probably the most believable one out of the bunch. Not because of the "God" part but because it's very true religion and faith can help addicts cope with there problems.

No, My point was, if God does not exist, then he did not heal these people. And obviously you don't believe that science can "magically cure cancer" then whom praytell did?

I don't think those stories even did happen, at least not as you believe they did.


You're also missing the elephant in the room. You claim that your "God" cured all of these people but why only choose such a select few? Many people who have the same faith as you die from cancer every day, have chronic arthritis, are blind or crippled and yet they pray to Jesus every night. They go to church every day and live a model life.

Yet they never get healed. So what's your excuse for those people? Are they not good enough? Are they not true believers? "God" works in mysterious ways?

But it's like I said. You will not believe this. There are plenty of places to find proof, but you will not accept it. If you really want proof, you can get down on your knees and pray. Pray to Jesus. And you can feel his presence.
I do not expect you to do that. I expect you to tell me that you have tried that before, and that you felt nothing.

I was a Catholic for most of my life and during that time I did pray. Many, many times. Never did I once "feel" anything.

There is no point in arguing the matter further. You wish to change my point of view, and I wish to change yours. It won't happen either way.

That's the thing, contrary to what you think I don't want to change your viewpoint. What I am doing is trying to figure out the rational behind why people believe what they do when there obviously is no proof to it.

You like to believe that you are the sole ruler of your life. You can make all the choices you need to live a successful life. I respect that. My grandfather was the same way. Until he got lung cancer. He died of it. A couple months before he died, he told my dad and his brothers that he finally came to the point in his life where he realized that there was a higher power, and he needed it. My grandfather was always a "good" man, but when he died he was the happiest he had ever been.

Sorry about your gramps.

I'm done now. You can disprove all I have said. That is all fine and good. I know why I am here on this earth. I have the faith to believe that I am more than just an animal that was bred to live, breed, and then die to fertilize the earth.
Kory

Fair enough.

 

[Cymro]

The bible specifies do not make image of anything else that is in earth or below it... any other "god" created by human minds is consider as idolatry.

Whilst some other religions say that it is a good thing to do so. What if a member of one of those religions came up to you and said "You don't have idols of your god, you clearly don't love him."?

I would promptly tell him that I did have a way to disprove it.

And then if they were to claim that there is no evidence of yours, but claimed that they had a way of proving theirs as real, refusing to listen to your viewpoint?

this person I know was there at their cousins funeral, and there cousin was dead, and he came back to life.

Then that person is either lying, or the coroner who inspected his cousin's corpse is incompetent and should be given the sack.

 

[Criptex]

Whilst some other religions say that it is a good thing to do so. What if a member of one of those religions came up to you and said "You don't have idols of your god, you clearly don't love him."?

Well if somebody tells me that, then that person is not telling me his point of view, but instead, judging mine. I don't judge wheter people praise idols or not, that is their own bussiness, I just said what the bible says about that topic.

 

[ichwar]

Whilst some other religions say that it is a good thing to do so. What if a member of one of those religions came up to you and said "You don't have idols of your god, you clearly don't love him."?

I'd tell him that I do love God because I obey Him by not making any idols of Him. God commands us not to make any images of Him. So, you think it would be loving to Him to do what He tells us not to do?

And then if they were to claim that there is no evidence of yours, but claimed that they had a way of proving theirs as real, refusing to listen to your viewpoint?

I'd say they should listen to the evidence before making any conclusions.

 

[WyrGecko]

mm, well, I don't have much to say in terms of debate, as it's usually the same. I'm fairly surprised that it's going this well, though. There's no systematic way to prove either side, and there's always "God meant for it to be that way." as if people were directly talking with him. I tend to call myself an apathetic agnostic, because I don't really see enough evidence for it. Apathetic is for not caring enough to spend time on the issue.

I never did believe in some higher power, despite going to a Catholic school for Kindergarten. Later on, when people were literally saying "I don't know which college I want to go to. God will decide for me." in youth groups, that'll probably continue to put me off for a good few decades.

People can believe what they want, though it'd preferably not involve harm to others, heh. People who try cramming religion down others throats need to be locked up with others with opposing viewpoints who want to do the same. Some other issues would be "ZOMG ur gonna go to HELL," "People need religion to be moral.", and general bashing of other religions. However, I know that most people aren't like that, and I have some deeply religious friends who are amazing.

Religion is a nice support tool in moderation, though, but everyone has their own ways.

 

[ichwar]

People can believe what they want, though it'd preferably not involve harm to others, heh. People who try cramming religion down others throats need to be locked up with others with opposing viewpoints who want to do the same. Some other issues would be "ZOMG ur gonna go to HELL," "People need religion to be moral.", and general bashing of other religions. However, I know that most people aren't like that, and I have some deeply religious friends who are amazing.

I don't believe any one here is trying to "cram religion down anyone's throats" here. This is just a "friendly" debate. (as friendly as it is possible for an argument to get )

 

[Parsa44]

I believe in god because i might as well say i do incase god really exists.

 

[truthguild]

I don't believe any one here is trying to "cram religion down anyone's throats" here. This is just a "friendly" debate. (as friendly as it is possible for an argument to get )

agreed. though we have disagreeing sides each challenging the viewpoints of the other (essentially what debate is) this has managed to remain the most civil religious debate i have ever been in - no ad hominem, no threats of hellfire, etc.

 

[Criptex]

agreed. though we have disagreeing sides each challenging the viewpoints of the other (essentially what debate is) this has managed to remain the most civil religious debate i have ever been in - no ad hominem, no threats of hellfire, etc.

Yeah... I also agree, because when you are a civilized person... you can actually debate in a proper way it doesn't matter if you can only agree in your disagreement.
People who threat other people, is the people who feel insecurity about what they're talking about, and about the weight of their opinion.

 

[flamer619]

I believe in god and Theres facts that god exists. Also There have been lots of miracles and such an I dont why I would believe in god

 

[Mongoose92]

I believe in God, lots of people have asked for proof of his existence, which is fair enough, it's the logical thing to do. Here are a few arguments I have heard.

Firstly, if you look at the world around us, surely you notice how meticulously everything works together. At least, it would if it weren't for our interference. How could all this have been created through pure chance? Don't you think something of this detail requires an incredible amount of imagination and thought?

Secondly, where did it all come from? One thing virtually every scientist on the planet agrees on, is that there was something needed to set the creation process off, and more and more scientists are coming to the conclusion that it must have been something(/one) of huge intelligence and power.

The flaw that I think is most significant in evolution is that it is supposedly random, whereas the laws of Physics say that anything left to its own devices will deteriorate; a car will rust, a tree will rot, and so we should have become more simple. And yet, if we put God in the equation, suddenly evolution may seem more possible. I will mention this again later.

Most of you will be aware of the classic 6 day creation. This is a topic of sizable discussion amongst theologians, I personally am amongst those who believe this does not necessarily mean 6 24-hour periods. It may be that the person who wrote Genesis was shown the process of creation in 6 stages, or 6 dreams etc. Whilst I don't think that the earth is billions of years old, I don't agree with the common 6000-year theory taken by many Christians.
I have to ask the question, does it matter? Does it matter how old the earth is? I think the important thing is that God is the Creator and Lord. It is possible that he used the Big Bang to start off his creation, and maybe something evolution-related to continue it. Christians spend far to much time objecting such theories, and nowhere near enough time spreading the gospel, which is their task.

The Bible is another pointer towards His existence. It is generally acknowledged that the Bible is historically accurate, and the miracles of Jesus are documented elsewhere as well. Don't these supernatural acts also point to a higher existence?

The accounts in the New Testament are all accurate, there is no conflict between accounts, and yet there are so many accounts about Jesus, both of his life by his companions and followers, and prophecies around 400 years before his birth! If it were untrue, these accounts would surely be mixed up and contradictory, seeing as they were written many, many years apart?

I think the fact that this discussion has continued without any stupid arguments, and threats etc is highly commendable, I hope it continues!

 

[Kayos]

and more and more scientists are coming to the conclusion that it must have been something(/one) of huge intelligence and power.

Not really, it's quite the opposite.

The flaw that I think is most significant in evolution is that it is supposedly random, whereas the laws of Physics say that anything left to its own devices will deteriorate; a car will rust, a tree will rot, and so we should have become more simple. And yet, if we put God in the equation, suddenly evolution may seem more possible. I will mention this again later.

You misunderstand evolution if you think it's random.

Taken from Evolution myths:

Evolution by natural selection is a two-step process, and only the first step is random: mutations are chance events, but their survival is often anything but. Natural selection favours mutations that provide some advantage and the physical world imposes very strict limits on what works and what doesn't. The result is that organisms evolve in particular directions.

I have to ask the question, does it matter? Does it matter how old the earth is?

Yeah, it does matter. There are a lot of questions that can be answered by understanding out planet and its history.

I think the important thing is that God is the Creator and Lord. It is possible that he used the Big Bang to start off his creation, and maybe something evolution-related to continue it.

The Bible states otherwise unless you think the Bible is wrong. Many Christians do think that way, at least in parts.

Christians spend far to much time objecting such theories, and nowhere near enough time spreading the gospel, which is their task.

They feel the need to shut down all ideas that do not conform to there faith based mentality. They dismiss those ideas as an atheistic agenda. It's the wrong message to convey and most of the time it makes them look very bad.

The Bible is another pointer towards His existence. It is generally acknowledged that the Bible is historically accurate, and the miracles of Jesus are documented elsewhere as well.

The Bible may have some accuracies but it's far from being completely accurate. And where have these miracles been documented elsewhere?

Don't these supernatural acts also point to a higher existence?

No.

If it were untrue, these accounts would surely be mixed up and contradictory, seeing as they were written many, many years apart?

They are though. There is no historical evidence to support that Jesus even existed. Many of the ideas that surround Jesus have even been taken from other sources. It's remarkable how similar the stories are yet they have taken place hundreds of years apart.

 

[noerrorsfound]

Theres facts that god exists.

Such as?

Also There have been lots of miracles and such

Such as? Can you prove they happened?

Put some thought into your post or don't post at all next time.

 

[John Klyne]

not sure if I posted here before....

do i believe in god......yes I do, i think everyone needs a person to look up to for whatever reason, I look up to God, I know a lot of what I wish never happens and such things like that, but it's nice to feel/think/beleive someone, God is watching over you.

 

[blueiron]

I do not believe in "God", I believe in the existence of a "god" rather.
I was raised under a religion, but no longer believe it for my own reasons. I'm a believer of living life to its fullest and doing what makes you happiest, with all parties considered.
This classification makes me a "Satanist."

I'm very logical in the ways that I do things, being a programmer its almost my nature.
That said, I simply don't see real evidence of a "god" so I chose not to believe in one, or feel pressed by rules set by those religions.

 

[Criptex]

Not really, it's quite the opposite..

are you sure? http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/03/collins.commentary/index.html
http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/050811_scientists_god.html

They feel the need to shut down all ideas that do not conform to there faith based mentality. They dismiss those ideas as an atheistic agenda. It's the wrong message to convey and most of the time it makes them look very bad.

This statement may be truth for some christians, but not for all of them, but this is razonable, because the bible says that nobody is perfect, only God, and if you think about it, that is true.
But even though they close their minds to new ideas, I can understand why they do it... because they don't want to risk their faith, and the man is weak and can be fooled easily if they don't have a good basis to their beliefs.

The Bible may have some accuracies but it's far from being completely accurate. And where have these miracles been documented elsewhere?.

half true
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-acb/acb-t001.html

They are though. There is no historical evidence to support that Jesus even existed. Many of the ideas that surround Jesus have even been taken from other sources. It's remarkable how similar the stories are yet they have taken place hundreds of years apart.

Oh believe me, theres plenty of evidence
http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/evidence-for-jesus.htm
Edit:

Not really, it's quite the opposite.

You misunderstand evolution if you think it's random.

Taken from Evolution myths:

Evolution by natural selection is a two-step process, and only the first step is random: mutations are chance events, but their survival is often anything but. Natural selection favours mutations that provide some advantage and the physical world imposes very strict limits on what works and what doesn't. The result is that organisms evolve in particular directions.

Yeah, it does matter. There are a lot of questions that can be answered by understanding out planet and its history.

The Bible states otherwise unless you think the Bible is wrong. Many Christians do think that way, at least in parts.

They feel the need to shut down all ideas that do not conform to there faith based mentality. They dismiss those ideas as an atheistic agenda. It's the wrong message to convey and most of the time it makes them look very bad.

The Bible may have some accuracies but it's far from being completely accurate. And where have these miracles been documented elsewhere?

No.

They are though. There is no historical evidence to support that Jesus even existed. Many of the ideas that surround Jesus have even been taken from other sources. It's remarkable how similar the stories are yet they have taken place hundreds of years apart.

I do not believe in "God", I believe in the existence of a "god" rather.
I was raised under a religion, but no longer believe it for my own reasons. I'm a believer of living life to its fullest and doing what makes you happiest, with all parties considered.
This classification makes me a "Satanist."

I'm very logical in the ways that I do things, being a programmer its almost my nature.
That said, I simply don't see real evidence of a "god" so I chose not to believe in one, or feel pressed by rules set by those religions.

It sounds like me, two years ago...
I was raised in a "christian" home, but they didn't reflect God in them so I decided that I would never believe that Christ thing.
But is not your time, is His time, and when He decides that is time for you to go back to the straight road... it doesn't matter your past, your family beliefs, or religion, it does not matter anything, is just you and Him. And you learn to follow Him, not a religion, not a denomination, is jus Him. believe me, I know about it.
Edit:

not sure if I posted here before....

do i believe in god......yes I do, i think everyone needs a person to look up to for whatever reason, I look up to God, I know a lot of what I wish never happens and such things like that, but it's nice to feel/think/beleive someone, God is watching over you.

No, you haven't, but thanks for expressing your opinion.
Edit:

Put some thought into your post or don't post at all next time.

Even if his posts have no foundation, or even if it's just crazytalk... I think everybody has a voice in the forums, or not?

 

[noerrorsfound]

Even if his posts have no foundation, or even if it's just crazytalk... I think everybody has a voice in the forums, or not?

Short answer: No.
Long answer:

Well thought discussions posted here. One liners strictly prohibited.*XTRA POINTS FORUM*

 

[Criptex]

Short answer: No.
Long answer:...

I was talking about the forums in general.
But yes, you are right, in this section those are the rules, but also we have to see that this guy is new, he has only a few posts and he just joined. Sometimes when you are new, you don't get the instructions right away.

 

[Kayos]

are you sure? http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/03/collins.commentary/index.html
http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/050811_scientists_god.html

Those links do not disprove what I said. They have no information to prior years or even a more recent survey. (It's 4 years old).

This statement may be truth for some christians, but not for all of them, but this is razonable, because the bible says that nobody is perfect, only God, and if you think about it, that is true.
But even though they close their minds to new ideas, I can understand why they do it... because they don't want to risk their faith, and the man is weak and can be fooled easily if they don't have a good basis to their beliefs.

I definitely was not talking about all Christians in general, just the ones that feel the need to impose there beliefs to dismiss scientific theories.

half true
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-acb/acb-t001.html

Please explain what you're trying to state. I read the link yet I still don't get what your trying to convey. Sorry.

Oh believe me, theres plenty of evidence
http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/evidence-for-jesus.htm

That link doesn't show any evidence that Jesus was real. All it does was name places and such. That's not evidence.

Short answer: No.
Long answer:

I was talking about the forums in general.
But yes, you are right, in this section those are the rules, but also we have to see that this guy is new, he has only a few posts and he just joined. Sometimes when you are new, you don't get the instructions right away.

Let's not deviate from the topic fellas.