Federal (National) Education Standards [USA]

[jtwhite]

It has recently dawned on me that maybe leaving Education up to the states is not the best thing for this country, and its students.

In New York, some schools start the base of Trigonometry in the 7th grade (year 8). My school doesn't allow you to enroll in Trigonometry until the second semester of the Sophomore year (10th grade; year 11).

I think colleges are more likely to chose somebody who attended the school in New York over my me because they have more mathematical experience and probably have completed a lot more mathematical courses than me. It's obvious, it would make their school look better because that student with more Education is more likely to succeed.

Right there ruins the American dream; equality.

I think we would be better off if the Federal government chose education standards and enforced them so every child (enrolled in Public schools; I still believe private schools should do what they want) has the same opportunities.

What do you think?

 

[dito7967]

Since I am in the public education system, my opinion may or may not matter anyway.

I believe that we should be able to do that. Say for example that child taking trigonometry in 7th grade should be allowed to take it providing his math skills are up to that level (he can prove it).

Perhaps they fear these children will get all too knowledgeable and self-aware (oops, too late) or perhaps they just want to make the education system have a more linear feeling and not have 6th Graders taking Calculus. (I have no idea what the point of the previous paragraph was)

But in short, Yes, I believe we should be able to take whatever subjects ahead of us provided that we are up to that level in our education skills.

 

[fractalfeline]

Maybe it's different in Texas but... if you can pass a Skip Ahead in Math Test, then you can start algebra and calculus earlier. Trig was sorta an afterthought thrown in at the end of algebra for me.

I forget which state it was (Tennessee? Alabama?) where they no longer teach fractions and have arbitrary designated pi as equal to 3 (for simplicity).

 

[nexhunter]

It would be nice having standards across the whole country that don't change every single freaking year just so I can feel smarter than those 8th graders that are learning stuff I learned in the 2nd half of freshman year or the freshman that think they can beat a class full of juniors and seniors in a bridge designing contest :rant2:.

 

[galaxyAbstractor]

In Sweden, every school has a plan to follow, but they can have their own interpretations of goals etc.

We start trigonometry in 8th grade here (when you are 14 year old).

I believe it's better if every school in the country teaches the same stuff to all students who got that subject, like it's done here.

 

[jtwhite]

Since I am in the public education system, my opinion may or may not matter anyway.

I believe that we should be able to do that. Say for example that child taking trigonometry in 7th grade should be allowed to take it providing his math skills are up to that level (he can prove it).

Perhaps they fear these children will get all too knowledgeable and self-aware (oops, too late) or perhaps they just want to make the education system have a more linear feeling and not have 6th Graders taking Calculus. (I have no idea what the point of the previous paragraph was)

But in short, Yes, I believe we should be able to take whatever subjects ahead of us provided that we are up to that level in our education skills.

Here, in Tennessee, the only thing considered "advanced" in middle school is taking Algebra 1 in 8th grade. Even if you do that, you don't receive a high school credit, so what's the point?

Maybe it's different in Texas but... if you can pass a Skip Ahead in Math Test, then you can start algebra and calculus earlier. Trig was sorta an afterthought thrown in at the end of algebra for me.

I forget which state it was (Tennessee? Alabama?) where they no longer teach fractions and have arbitrary designated pi as equal to 3 (for simplicity).

I'm in Tennessee and we use 3.14159 or the pi button on the calculator.

It would be nice having standards across the whole country that don't change every single freaking year just so I can feel smarter than those 8th graders that are learning stuff I learned in the 2nd half of freshman year or the freshman that think they can beat a class full of juniors and seniors in a bridge designing contest :rant2:.

I think the standards should be consistently getting harder, to an extent. If it's proven that a 2nd grader and do Algebra, why prevent the progress of human knowledge?

In Sweden, every school has a plan to follow, but they can have their own interpretations of goals etc.

We start trigonometry in 8th grade here (when you are 14 year old).

I believe it's better if every school in the country teaches the same stuff to all students who got that subject, like it's done here.

I wish I could have had the opportunity to learn more and start Trigonometry in 8th grade. Instead, I had no choice but to take Algebra 1 in 9th grade, right now I'm in Honors Geometry, next semester Honors Algebra II, then, finally, I can take Trigonometry in 11th grade...

 

[Danielx386]

Here in Australia, in year 7-9 we do what we call core subjects: maths, English, science, PE, Drama, history and one other subject that I forgot. Year 10 we get to chose some subjects. When I comes to year 11+12 the only subject that we must do is English.

The thing I hate here that each state has it own system. You are competing against other student in your state. Don't you think it should be the whole country? or is that too hard?

 

[bradym]

I think we would be better off if the Federal government chose education standards and enforced them so every child (enrolled in Public schools; I still believe private schools should do what they want) has the same opportunities.

What do you think?

I'm not understanding your point about wanting all students to have the same opportunities. That doesn't make sense. It sounds like you don't want 7th graders in NY to have the opportunity to learn trig because another state doesn't allow their students the same opportunity. Or is the other way around. You want all states to offer trig to 7th graders? Then what about all communities? Are all communities equally able to fill a class of 7th grade trig? Unfortunately, no. Is that the school's fault? the government's fault? anyone's fault?

I think the federal goverment should keep out of public education. What has the federal goverment taken over that has then gotten better, more streamlined, more effective? We send all our money there, and they put restrictions on it before they send it back.

Also, I have problem with every child staying the same, because that usually ends up every child remaining mediocre. So are you suggesting that we prohibit some schools from teaching trig in the 7th grade because other students can't handle trig in the 7th grade? What do we do with the 7th graders who can handle trig while they're waiting for the others to catch up?

No matter what you do, all people will never have the same opportunities because people are not the same. We all have different strengths. Children should be allowed to pursue their strengths. Schools should help students identify their strengths and pursue them to the greatest extent possible. A national curriculum would lead to mediocrity in the school system. Just recently I read about the gov't gutting the funding for gifted education in order to pay for low skill students to better their reading and math scores. That's a worthy goal, but it's not going to put a man in space, or solve our extremely complicated economic problems. It's those 7th grade trig students that are going to do that.

 

[jtwhite]

I'm not understanding your point about wanting all students to have the same opportunities. That doesn't make sense. It sounds like you don't want 7th graders in NY to have the opportunity to learn trig because another state doesn't allow their students the same opportunity. Or is the other way around. You want all states to offer trig to 7th graders? Then what about all communities? Are all communities equally able to fill a class of 7th grade trig? Unfortunately, no. Is that the school's fault? the government's fault? anyone's fault?

I think the federal goverment should keep out of public education. What has the federal goverment taken over that has then gotten better, more streamlined, more effective? We send all our money there, and they put restrictions on it before they send it back.

Also, I have problem with every child staying the same, because that usually ends up every child remaining mediocre. So are you suggesting that we prohibit some schools from teaching trig in the 7th grade because other students can't handle trig in the 7th grade? What do we do with the 7th graders who can handle trig while they're waiting for the others to catch up?

No matter what you do, all people will never have the same opportunities because people are not the same. We all have different strengths. Children should be allowed to pursue their strengths. Schools should help students identify their strengths and pursue them to the greatest extent possible. A national curriculum would lead to mediocrity in the school system. Just recently I read about the gov't gutting the funding for gifted education in order to pay for low skill students to better their reading and math scores. That's a worthy goal, but it's not going to put a man in space, or solve our extremely complicated economic problems. It's those 7th grade trig students that are going to do that.

I think that we should at least have more strict Federal guidelines on Education. I understand what you're saying about every school not being able to that. If every school cannot get students prepared for Trigonometry in the 7th grade, they should allow students who can to pursue that opportunity, which is not the case here.

It's those 7th grade trig students that are going to do that.

Which I missed out on because my school could not offer that to me, even though I was well ready to take more advanced mathematics courses.

 

[fractalfeline]

Also, I have problem with every child staying the same, because that usually ends up every child remaining mediocre. ...
No matter what you do, all people will never have the same opportunities because people are not the same. We all have different strengths. Children should be allowed to pursue their strengths. Schools should help students identify their strengths and pursue them to the greatest extent possible. A national curriculum would lead to mediocrity in the school system. Just recently I read about the gov't gutting the funding for gifted education in order to pay for low skill students to better their reading and math scores. That's a worthy goal, but it's not going to put a man in space, or solve our extremely complicated economic problems. It's those 7th grade trig students that are going to do that.

I've always kinda wished that the entire education system be reworked so that kids' talents are identified earlier and institute programs that help children hone their natural talents rather than inflict the same curriculum on all of them at the same pace. It always seemed rather useless to me for a student who wants to be an artist to be forced to learn calculus, or a student gifted in math and science to sit around in English class debating the finer points of The Great Gatsby. Perhaps a system in which their talents are tested early, and courses are recommended for them, starting perhaps around age 12? And the next 4 years or so are "honing" years, with core classes that go towards their talents with some room for non-core electives? Hell, a lot of students don't care about going to college anyhow, perhaps enroll them in a trade-skill training core so that they graduate with some know-how under their belt?

I'm not saying kids should be locked in to a career choice at such an early age, but a lot of the fluff of middle-school and high school could be eliminated just like that. It might even be good for the adolescent psychological development, helping with identity formation and allowing them some degree of control over themselves and their destiny.

Wishful thinking. But it's a nice dream

 

[phazzedout]

This reminds me of the time when I passed Algebra 1 in 8th grade with a B, but did not count for high school credit so I had to take it again. First of all, why? If I got the stuff down then why should I bother in doing it again. Well I did, and passed the first semester, then something happened I could of cared less for school and failed it every time (Got A's on test but that only counts for 25 percent of my grade..... Idiots.) until I got to 11th grade. Lol I admit it was kind of my fault but honestly, this brings up another subject. All my high school classes had a grade style that did not make sense here is an example:

Homework: 50%
Participation: 10%
Tests: 25%
Quiz: 15%

Ok so in math I would get A's and B's on my tests so that would count for 40% of my grade, let's say I get it to 38% in Tests/Quizzes. Now you see.... If I know what I am doing why hold me back. I would get all the points for participation because my speech therapist would tell them that I had a hard time talking. (I do, it sucks but oh well) So I have now 48%... What the hell.... I sometimes did my homework because my parents would sometimes come home and make me. So I did about 10% of if it. Tada 58% I failed.

The most funny part about it is, I would always take the honors test to get into honors just for kicks and laughs. I would always get accepted into Honors, always. My teachers would look at me as if I cheated but they know I didn't because I was in a room monitored. Would I go into honors, of course not, because I failed the prerequisite class. LOL.

 

[fractalfeline]

This reminds me of the time when I passed Algebra 1 in 8th grade with a B, but did not count for high school credit so I had to take it again. First of all, why? If I got the stuff down then why should I bother in doing it again. Well I did, and passed the first semester, then something happened I could of cared less for school and failed it every time (Got A's on test but that only counts for 25 percent of my grade..... Idiots.) until I got to 11th grade. Lol I admit it was kind of my fault but honestly, this brings up another subject. All my high school classes had a grade style that did not make sense here is an example:

Homework: 50%
Participation: 10%
Tests: 25%
Quiz: 15%

Ok so in math I would get A's and B's on my tests so that would count for 40% of my grade, let's say I get it to 38% in Tests/Quizzes. Now you see.... If I know what I am doing why hold me back. I would get all the points for participation because my speech therapist would tell them that I had a hard time talking. (I do, it sucks but oh well) So I have now 48%... What the hell.... I sometimes did my homework because my parents would sometimes come home and make me. So I did about 10% of if it. Tada 58% I failed.

The most funny part about it is, I would always take the honors test to get into honors just for kicks and laughs. I would always get accepted into Honors, always. My teachers would look at me as if I cheated but they know I didn't because I was in a room monitored. Would I go into honors, of course not, because I failed the prerequisite class. LOL.

lol sorry for such a long time in responding! I kept meaning to do this and then get distracted.

I was lucky in that the math department in my school was populated by quirky progressive teachers (at least, until the politics caught up with them). I came to that school district around 7th grade, and for whatever reason a lot of my records were lost in the shuffle. I was supposed to have started algebra in 7th grade but they stuck me in the regular math class. A year wasted, and I landed in Pre-Algebra in 8th grade. Luckily, the teacher of this class was a good one, and she had set up the first day as a sort of weeding and sorting. She set up what I later realized were thought experiments, and presented them to the class in discussion format, and sat back to watch who had the concepts and who didn't. Myself and another girl in my class were pulled aside later. The teacher arranged meetings with the principle and the parents, and advocated that we be skipped ahead a year. So I skipped Pre-Algebra, and went straight into Algebra.

Later, I had another good teacher, who was a bit of a rebel. Our school had adopted a 50/50 policy, where 50 percent was tests, and 50 percent was daily grades, in a political attempt to inflate grades. This teacher was appalled at the politics, so she decided to get smart. Alright, well 50% tests, and quizzes will be daily, and they will count 30%, with homework, participation, and attendence constituting the rest. Effectively 80% tests and quizzes, right? Smart teacher, and talented at teaching as well, but eventually the Higher Ups got fed up with her "antics" and sent her packing. The next dude in was an old military guy, and he's like "Yeah I know this school has a 50/50 policy, and I just don't agree with it. 70% tests, 30% homework, that's it. I want to give you guys a good education, and that's just the way it's gonna be in MY classroom." Yeah, he didn't last long. Finally they settled on a Nigerian guy, business major type who is just barely certified in teaching. He taught straight from the textbook, and complied with the Higher Ups, and who cares if the kids really learn it right? Not paid to care I guess. :nuts:

 

[xav0989]

Around where I am, the government sets up a plan that every subsidized school must follow. Depending on how much you are subsidized (fully, half or none) you get to follow more of less the plan. My school is half subsidized (although it's called private) and doesn't care about the plan, it creates it's own. Everyone has the same classes (advanced in everything, except English as a second language, where levels range from regular to bilingual) except the last year of High School, where you choose between Science (chem and physics, if you have the grades) and history (1500 and 1900). Keep in mind that my system is the french quebec system, and is very different from the english-canadian or american system. It's not even comparable to the french system.