Meaning with life

[ichwar]

ichwar, I believe in God. I'm a christian. I'm having doubts though. I mean some things christians do I'm not so sure about though. I mean, I've noticed christians are some of the people quickest to persecute someone if they don't have the same beliefs. And some questions and holes in stories and theories are never answered, but I don't want to ask them because God forbid I should doubt what I've been taught my whole life. And what does music have to do with what you believe? I listen to heavy metal and screamo. Thats not going to change my beliefs, nor is what I watch on TV. Connecting with people on a level they can understand, and a medium they use is the best way to reach people.

Hi swirly, I totally understand how you feel about other so called "christians." There are two things to keep in mind when dealing with anyone, including other christians. First and formost, no one is perfect, not even Christians. Our whole life is spent in the sanctifying proccess, but until we die and are regenerated, we will not be perfect.
Secondly, if someone says they are a Christian, but their life is spent doing things that are contradictory, to God's commands, it is most likely that they are not christians.

You asked what music has to do with what I believe. As a Christian, my whole life, not just my spare time, my WHOLE life is spent in a God honouring fashion. The most obvious way to honour God is to obey Him. He gave us commands on what to do. He also gave us commands on what NOT to do. But He never told us not to listen to certain kinds of music. This area of life then is left to our judgement. I do not listen to rock because of its worldly association. This genre was created by rebellious God haters, and today, is still the life-blood of the world. I do not see anything God honouring in it. Also, it is used to represent the world. God called us out of the world. To try and clarify what I'm trying to say, let me give you another example: I like playing card games. Not poker or the like, but various games that use a deck of playing cards. There is nothing wrong with card games in general. But, because of the common connotation of playing cards with evil drunkards, I try and avoid these games so as not to even give the appearance of doing evil.
So then, if you can honour God by listening to a certain type of music, if God doesn't forbid it, I definately don't either. As Charles Spurgeon said: "Every night I go home and smoke to the glory of God" so in the same way listen to what you want, just so long as you are doing to the glory of God.

I hope this answers your questions. If not, please, let me know what I din't clarify!
Thanks!

 

[tridge]

Live your life the way you want to or it's not a life.

 

[ichwar]

Live your life the way you want to or it's not a life.

Tridge, if everyone did that, our country would descend to total anarchy.

 

[warlordste]

i think the meaning of life is to surivive to keep the human race going its every other animals job so why wouldn't it be the same for us kinda depressing but ture if u think about it

 

[ichwar]

But if that is the reason to sustain life, what would the purpose be for that life? To make more life? That's a meaningless chain. More people than one have fallen here: You can't compare animals with people. They are beasts. We are men, made in the image of God.
So, going back to your point, what is the sense of keeping the human race going if the human race has no purpose. You see, in order for the human race to sustain itself, it must have a reason for doing so. And that reason cannot be the action that results from that reason. What I mean is, there must be a "third party" reason to sustain life in the human race. Other wise, what you are saying is: "the goal of life is to continue life, the reason for continuing life is so that we can continue life." That is circular reasoning and utterly senseless. There must be some reason for everything that is done. You can't just do it for the sake of doing it.

 

[farscapeone]

Meaning in life is for those who can see their purpose and their goal. Everybody else exists to make those goals possible. You'll probably ask what the point of that is and here's what I know.

The reason we're evolving is to make our lives better. That makes us happy. Now days we call it advancing of technology, but it's still a kind of evolution and we're still happy about it. A perfect example is when we by new hi-tech gadgets (like mobile phones, MP4, DVD, HD players, etc.). You'll probably say that those are the "small" things but the fact is that those "small" things are making us happy and our lives better and that's what matters.

So, there are people who invented the gadgets, there are people who manufactured the gadgets and there are people who are using those gadgets. The point is that people who invented those gadgets had a purpose, a goal in their lives; people who manufactured those gadgets also had a goal and if you look at a bigger picture you will see that both of their goals made people who are using those gadgets happier thus making this planet a better place. This is just a simple example and if you try to think about it you will see that the overall meaning of our lives is to make it better for us and for everyone else. That's the only thing that is infinite.

But what about those who are using the gadgets. What's their purpose? They are inventing, manufacturing or doing other thing that makes gadget people happy. As I said, meaning in life is for those who can see their purpose and their goal. Everybody else exists to make those goals possible, but those “everybody else” have their own goals and it can go like that forever.

So if you think that you job is meaningless, think again.

 

[noerrorsfound]

So, could you please tell me why you don't believe God exists? You must have some good reason I'm sure for denying Him.

If God didn't create us, who did? If God doesn't exist, what point is there in living?
Edit:
As I stated above, life does have a purpose. All men know that. The purpose is to glorify God. Not all men know that.

You're right, I have a great reason. I don't believe any god exists simply because there is no hard evidence to convince me. And frankly I doubt I'll be convinced unless there's proof.

If you still don't understand (many Christians don't), imagine me asking you if you believe in unicorns, Santa Claus, aliens, or anything else you don't believe in. Your reasoning for not believing in that is probably similar to my reason for not believing in a god.

As for your question about the point of life, that's exactly what this thread is intended to be a discussion about, and I already answered it in the post of mine you've already read.

I'm a christian. I believe that God created us to worship him.

You're saying he created people just so he'd be worshipped? That sounds very vain.

But if that is the reason to sustain life, what would the purpose be for that life? To make more life? That's a meaningless chain. More people than one have fallen here: You can't compare animals with people. They are beasts. We are men, made in the image of God.
So, going back to your point, what is the sense of keeping the human race going if the human race has no purpose. You see, in order for the human race to sustain itself, it must have a reason for doing so. And that reason cannot be the action that results from that reason. What I mean is, there must be a "third party" reason to sustain life in the human race. Other wise, what you are saying is: "the goal of life is to continue life, the reason for continuing life is so that we can continue life." That is circular reasoning and utterly senseless. There must be some reason for everything that is done. You can't just do it for the sake of doing it.

You're not the only person to wonder this. Truthfully, we may have no purpose for being here at all. Sure, it's disappointing to us humans, but just because we're here doesn't mean there's a reason, or that anyone put us here. I've already said that I don't try to figure it out because there is no answer. What you've said yourself just sums up as far as I've ever gotten when trying to answer the question.

I'm just going to live my life anyway, and if I really go somewhere after death, I'll find out when I die. If there is a god, assuming it's a fair one, he will judge people based on whether they're good or bad, not whether they boosted his ego. It would be very unfair for a being to create us, then punish us for using the brains we were given to come to a conclusion based on what we know. Of course, we all just assume that the gods we believe in really are fair, but what if that's not the case? What if you really do get punished unfairly for wanting proof before you choose to believe something?

Also, it's weird that any god would put us here just as some type of test, when he should have been able to know everything a person would be before anyone existed.

 

[ichwar]

You're right, I have a great reason. I don't believe any god exists simply because there is no hard evidence to convince me. And frankly I doubt I'll be convinced unless there's proof.

Well then, I guess I've got better chance than I thought at convincing you, because I've got hard evidence! For example, where do you think we came from if God didn't create us? No one in history has ever solved that problem. Thus, I have a very good reason for believing in God.

If you still don't understand (many Christians don't), imagine me asking you if you believe in unicorns, Santa Claus, aliens, or anything else you don't believe in. Your reasoning for not believing in that is probably similar to my reason for not believing in a god.

No, my reason for not believing in unicorns, Santa Claus, and Aliens is EXTREMELY differnt from your reason for not believing in God. As I have already stated, there is, and always will be until someone can disprove it, evidence that God exists. But, the last time I checked, there was NO evidence that unicorns exist. Have you found any yet?

You're saying he created people just so he'd be worshipped? That sounds very vain.

You're making a big mistake here (many Atheists do): you're trying to apply a human fault to a perfect God. God is not vain. God is not like us. He has His own perfect reasons for everything, and everything He does, is most always for some other reason than He chooses to have us think. So, IF God were just another creature, a human like us, then yes it would be vain.

You're not the only person to wonder this. Truthfully, we may have no purpose for being here at all. Sure, it's disappointing to us humans, but just because we're here doesn't mean there's a reason, or that anyone put us here. I've already said that I don't try to figure it out because there is no answer. What you've said yourself just sums up as far as I've ever gotten when trying to answer the question.

You state this as though it were fact. But it isn't. You say you never try to figure it out. Well then, how can you know if it is true or not if you never try to figure it out. What you are saying is
"that since you think you know the outcome, you aren't going to think about it because if you think about it to hard, you might destroy your idea of how you think life ought to be"
If you don't try and reason out something from start to finish, logically, you will not get the right result. You won't think, you are just assuming because you don't want to think.
I HAVE thought about it. There is only one solution that makes sense, and that is a Creator. That is God.

I'm just going to live my life anyway, and if I really go somewhere after death, I'll find out when I die. If there is a god, assuming it's a fair one, he will judge people based on whether they're good or bad, not whether they boosted his ego. It would be very unfair for a being to create us, then punish us for using the brains we were given to come to a conclusion based on what we know. Of course, we all just assume that the gods we believe in really are fair, but what if that's not the case? What if you really do get punished unfairly for wanting proof before you choose to believe something?

God gave us His Word. In it one of the things He tells us is that if we don't believe Him because we want some kind of proof, then we will not go unpunished. It is fair for Him to punish us because He made us.
If you still don't understand (many Atheists don't), imagine that you are an artist, and that a painiting you attempted turned out a soggy disaster, what would you do? You might or you might not decide to crumple it up, toss it in the waste basket, and forget it. But yet God makes us, we turn out a soggy disaster, but we, the painting that didn't turn out well, tell Him that it is unfair for Him to destroy us and toss us away so He can't do it. That sounds a little bit backwards. Just like you can do whatever you want to that painting, so God can do whatever He wants to us.

Also, it's weird that any god would put us here just as some type of test, when he should have been able to know everything a person would be before anyone existed.

God does know everthing we will ever do and be before we exist. Where ever did you get that erroneous idea from that God put us here as a test?
I have already told you, but I'll gladly tell you again: God put us here to worship Him!

 

[noerrorsfound]

Bumping this thread to respond. I was reminded of this after someone else posted a thread about it.

Well then, I guess I've got better chance than I thought at convincing you, because I've got hard evidence! For example, where do you think we came from if God didn't create us? No one in history has ever solved that problem. Thus, I have a very good reason for believing in God.

You have a double standard here. You think it's impossible for one thing to exist without a creator (universe), yet you think it's possible for something else to exist without one (god). That isn't even close to "hard evidence". How can you even be sure that you're right? We could have come from anywhere or anything, yet you jump to the conclusion that your beliefs are the right ones.

As I have already stated, there is, and always will be until someone can disprove it, evidence that God exists.

Then why are you keeping it a secret?

But, the last time I checked, there was NO evidence that unicorns exist. Have you found any yet?

That's my point. There isn't evidence for unicorns nor God.

You're making a big mistake here (many Atheists do): you're trying to apply a human fault to a perfect God. God is not vain. God is not like us. He has His own perfect reasons for everything, and everything He does, is most always for some other reason than He chooses to have us think. So, IF God were just another creature, a human like us, then yes it would be vain.

Where's your proof that he's perfect? You don't know. You can't know! Who says you could even take god's word for that if he said it himself? Even if a god exists, that doesn't necessarily mean it's a nice, fair, or honest one.

You say you never try to figure it out. Well then, how can you know if it is true or not if you never try to figure it out. What you are saying is
"that since you think you know the outcome, you aren't going to think about it because if you think about it to hard, you might destroy your idea of how you think life ought to be"
[...]
If you don't try and reason out something from start to finish, logically, you will not get the right result. You won't think, you are just assuming because you don't want to think.

No, I didn't say that. You conveniently skipped over where I said, "What you've said yourself just sums up as far as I've ever gotten when trying to answer the question."

I did, however, state that I'm done trying to figure it out. I got as far as possible before realizing that we can't figure out if life has a meaning when so many other things are still unknown. How can I say what the meaning of life is, if I don't know that there is one? How can I know there is one if I don't know that we were created? How can I know that we were created if there's no proof? And so on (these are rhetorical and used to illustrate the point).

God gave us His Word. In it one of the things He tells us is that if we don't believe Him because we want some kind of proof, then we will not go unpunished. It is fair for Him to punish us because He made us.

A point I've already made is that just because something creates us doesn't make it fair for that something to do whatever it pleases with us.

If you still don't understand (many Atheists don't)
[...]
Just like you can do whatever you want to that painting, so God can do whatever He wants to us.

That's a horrible example. Paintings are objects with no life and no feelings. Who cares what I do with my own crappy painting? A man and a woman can create a child, but just because they create it doesn't mean they can do what they want with it.

God does know everthing we will ever do and be before we exist. Where ever did you get that erroneous idea from that God put us here as a test?
I have already told you, but I'll gladly tell you again: God put us here to worship Him!

From Christians. Many of them. And who's to say they're wrong? Nobody knows for sure what reason a god could have put us here. But since you've got a different opinion of why he supposedly created us:

No matter how many times you say that, it still makes your god seem vain. Or, if you'd prefer another word: egotistical. Oh, wait, he's perfect, so we can't fault him for his actions with our puny human words. But again, you don't know he's perfect any more than you know he exists.

Coming back and editing to say: Looking back at the discussion a little to see where it drifted off topic, it seems Ichwar was the one who got this turned into a more of a religious discussion. Others were mentioning how religiousness can affect people's opinions about life's meaning, but not trying to debate religion itself.

 

[fractalfeline]

For my own two cents, I don't think humans have the real capability of knowing with any certainty what the meaning of life actually is. So when you remove the purely absolute Meaning of Life from the equation as being unknowable, it comes down to the relative Meaning of Life. ie what do you think is the meaning of life, rather than what is the meaning of life.

For me, I think meaning is function of beliefs, values, and whatnot. Are you living your life to its fullest potential, adhering to your own set of beliefs and values? For some people, that means leaving behind a legacy. Being remembered is about as close to immortality as we can get (unless you believe in religion, and even so, people try to leave behind a part of themselves for helping future generations of Gods People). For some people, immortality due to notoriety is good enough (Jesse James, Hitler, Mae West) while others would like to change the world for the better as their lasting legacy (Ghandi, Mother Theresa, etc.). For many of us plain folk, just leaving behind fond memories in their children and loved ones is good enough. And some people couldn't give a rats arse if they leave a legacy, perhaps they believe life is for the here and now, forget the future, forget the past, all you have is now, live according to what makes you happy, and screw everyone else if they disagree!

Me personally? I think my life's meaning is to do what little I can to contribute to humanity, and live (within reason) according to my own personal system of ideals. Whether or not I'm remembered matters little to me; I figure the consequences on life, the universe, and everything that have come from my actions are a legacy of its own. And I'd prefer if those consequences are predominately good rather than useless or even worse, negative. All things add up eventually, and hopefully my little contribution helps put things on the positive side.

 

[nzitguy]

the answer is: (~drumroll~) wikipedia

and whadda ya know they actually have an article about it
meaning of life

oh and sorry for ruining your thread

yep wikipedia has it all, :drool: